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Thread: Bake Off At Mine

  1. #1
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

    Default Bake Off At Mine

    Had Oliver 'Bigman' come around today with some bits and pieces.

    First up the DB1 unity gain pre-amp - very interesting bit of kit this, just a buffer stage with stepped attenuator. I was interested to see if it would be a better match for the Krell than my usual SA passive.


    Bit of a spanner in the works in that my Technics SLP1200 decided to start playing up yesterday, stopping after playing 4 or 5 tracks. So had to slum it with the Sony ES505 which is good, but nothing like as good as the Techy.


    The DB1 gave quite different presentation, smoother, better defined bass, every track in the mix seemed to have its own spotlight shone on it. Quite upfront but never hard or aggressive. Maybe it had a bit less 'wallop' in the bottom registers but it was more defined, the tone of the bass guitar came through a bit more. I'm going to get a loan of one once Oli has built it so I'll be able have a longer go with it then.


    Oli also brought the Monarchy SM70 power amp, dinky little thing that weighs like a gold ingot. Swapped it in place of the Krell KSA50S, not a massive amount of difference. maybe a bit less weight and grip but I can tell you, you'd struggle in a blind test provided you didn't bang it up too loud. A really good amplifier.


    Finally we had a go with the Spotfire interconnects - I wasn't expecting much, I was wrong and am going to get some. They just put a bit of snap into what was quite a 'lazy' sound, as Oli put it. I listen to quite a lot of heavy rock and that so I don't like a lot of edge on the sound that can flatter simpler music but is too much if you're playing something like Led Zep at any sort of volume. So my system is sort of balanced to that. But the Spotfire gave a it more of a crispness to the sound without making it in any way brittle.

    We listened to songs from the following records:

    Steely Dan: Everything Must Go
    Curtis Mayfield: Superfly,
    Dire Straits: Brothers In Arms
    Eric Clapton & BB King: Riding With The King
    ZZ Top: ZZ Top's First Album

    My phone will not talk to my new laptop but Oli took some illustrative pics so you'll have to wait until he posts them up (Marco).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #2
    Bigman80 Guest

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    A visit to Maccas,

    Upon recieving word that Macca wanted to run the rule over my DCB1 Preamp, we setup a meet. Macca's was the venue.

    We started off with his Krell KSA50S which was powering his Jmlabs speakers. Source was a Sony ES CDP. We plumbed in the DCB1 and sat down for a few tracks. Steely Dan, ZZ Top, Dire Straits, Eric Clapton & BB King provided the bulk of the music.

    Upon the very first few opening bars of the Dire Straits track "So Far Away" it was clear how good the Krell was, Big wholesome soundstage, Midbass in abundace and plenty of the lower registers. Excellent grip and timing. The soundstage was tall and deep and Knopflers voice sounded clean and distinct. I was happy we got this track on as i know it very well and i managed to get a handle on the system very quickly.

    The DCB1 allowed the CDP to create a purity of sound which i havent heard from CD. It still had the stereotypical Digitial markers like the HF's sounding a little higher in the mix than with Vinyl, but never harsh wich i liked. Bass was tight and extended but what i liked moset was the grip the amp had. The DCB1 was lively and rythmic but in an honest way, fully allowing the urgency of the tracks to flow effortlessly.

    After a while we decided to put in my Monarchy Audio SM-70. Instantly i felt we had taken out a huge amp and put in a smaller one. It was odd that the soundstage shrunk and Macca quite rightly pointed out the volume was lower. Once we had matched the level loosley, things got much better. I did feel the Krell was "meatier" and left me thinking the SM-70 was a bit "lean"

    After a brief warm up period, i felt the mids improved on the SM-70 and in my opinion, its debateable whether the Krell is as transparent as the Monarchy or whether the Monarchy is leaner than the Krell. I am unsure which one is the most accurate and would need a bit more time to fully decide on that. In Terms of SQ, there was nothing in it that i could tell. The Monarchy was transparent and ZZ Top really came alive. The guitar had crunch and grit. The Plectrum flicking off the strings was clearly audible and the energy they were trying to portray was evident. I was very impressed.

    If i had to chose one of the Krell or the Monarchy, It would be very difficult. The only difference being the presence and slightly different tonal presentations. If it was a financial decision the the Monarchy would be my choice. If it was a musical decision, the Krell and if it was ultimate accuracy, well thats a 50/50

    The truth is, via both amplifiers, the musicians were there, the guitars were being played in the room and the realism was evident. They are stellar performers.

    We then decided to put Macca's native SA Preamp in with the Monarchy.

    It was at this point that the SQ took a turn for the worse IMO. SQ was diminished slightly, the soundstage that was quite epic, became a smaller window between the speakers and the performers suddenly took a step back into the CD they came from. I felt like we were now listening to the CD rather than the band.

    There was also colouration. The mids sounded like they were boosted a little and the bass became a bit looser. With passives I find this masquerades as "more" but generally it's just not as well controlled, IMO

    There was also a softening of the performance too. The Snare no longer had the snap and the whole performance felt lazy.

    Oddly, Macca said he found this easier to listen to and stated the DCB1 Seperated the musicians better and there was clearer deliniation with the DCB1. To me the Sounstage became flat and and smeared. I was uninvolved all of a sudden.

    I decided to see if macca wanted to try the SPOTFIRE cables at this point. The reaction?.........."I am not one to jump to conclusions, having been in the HiFi game for so long but these are obviously better. It's like swapping from the Sony CDP to the (far better) Technics CDP"

    The cables improved the whole performance IMO. I won't comment further on this because they are my cables. I will let Macca add his 2p.

    Overall, i felt the Preamp really benefitted from the addidtion of the cables.

    Today, if i were to pick from the amps and the preamps we tried, I'd go for the DCB1 (no contest for my taste) and the Krell for the HUGE sound it produces. A really enjoyable afternoon. Thanks for the LP macca!
    Last edited by Bigman80; 06-09-2018 at 19:48.

  3. #3
    Bigman80 Guest

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    A couple of pics. Krell looks like it's carrying it's young

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Oli also brought the Monarchy SM70 power amp, dinky little thing that weighs like a gold ingot. Swapped it in place of the Krell KSA50S, not a massive amount of difference. maybe a bit less weight and grip but I can tell you, you'd struggle in a blind test provided you didn't bang it up too loud. A really good amplifier.
    Not done the comparison, but I did suggest to Oliver that I suspected there'd be more similarities in the sound of the two amps than differences. The SM-70 is a classy little thing.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    We should have tried the DB1 /Spotfire / Krell combo, I suspect that's where the gold might lie.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #6
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Not done the comparison, but I did suggest to Oliver that I suspected there'd be more similarities in the sound of the two amps than differences. The SM-70 is a classy little thing.
    It was a very interesting part. Just the heft as you say and I wasn't totally prepared to experience the shift in scale either. The Krell sounded bigger, probably because it is! But I hadn't experienced that before. I really liked it.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    We should have tried the DB1 /Spotfire / Krell combo, I suspect that's where the gold might lie.
    Macca, it IS where the gold is. I just know we F@cked up not doing it and I'm disappointed we ran out of time.

    I can't build another with the Khozmo as I haven't got the budget, so whatever I build won't be the same.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Not done the comparison, but I did suggest to Oliver that I suspected there'd be more similarities in the sound of the two amps than differences. The SM-70 is a classy little thing.
    You've been telling me to get one for years and I know you don't recommend crap but they are pretty thin on the ground. It was very much like a mini-me Krell. Not quite as good, having heard them back to back I'd pick the Krell, but they cost a lot less then a Krell as well, if you can find one.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    A couple of pics. Krell looks like it's carrying it's young

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
    Love that pic and the description

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    It was a very interesting part. Just the heft as you say and I wasn't totally prepared to experience the shift in scale either
    I expect the difference might be less with your speakers. Those Pioneers are a very easy load, so either amp would just be cruising driving those.

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