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Thread: The Odyssey

  1. #11
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 32,090
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Adams View Post
    The Tannoys would have been the end of the journey for me but issues with matching the HF units of the Reds made it impossible for me to live with them on a long term basis, so eventually they went.

    Initially I had aspirations of building a 3 way horn system around the GRF cabinets, but I realised I actually wanted to be able to enjoy listening again rather than dealing with mis-aligned drivers/building cross overs, so when the opportunity came to try some modern dual concentrics I thought it was worth a try.

    Enter Trenner and Friedl with their RA units.



    Somewhat different to the Tannoys I had as they actually have a wave guide for the HF unit so are like a cross between a Tannoy and a Altec 604 unit. They are also 12 drive units (rather than the 15s) and the cabinets are of a significantly smaller volume than the GRFs.

    Firstly they weren’t faulty. No weird imaging or resonance issues (which I had with the Tannoys) They are more neutral/less coloured and work far better at lower volume than the Tannoys had. Being a ported box similar to the Lockwoods I hadn’t actually lost any bass extension…

    However some of what the Tannoys did, they don’t do so well. The dynamic impact is less (most likely due to the change in driver size) and I think they aren’t quite so revealing. Also I had got used to the horn loading from the GRFs which coupled with my room quite well to give a more 3D image than I got from a ported box.
    Nice bit of wood that. Very pretty finish.
    Regards,
    Grant ....
    Sometimes incompetence is useful. It helps you keep an open mind.
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    IMUTO TAURUS X4 BATTERY SUPPLY. - RPI2B & AUDIOPHONICS DAC running MOODE 3.6- TONBRUX BATTERY SUPPLY & CHROMECAST2 AUDIO DONGLE no1 - JBE SERIES 3 SLATEDECK & EMOTIVA XPS-1 PHONO - DENON DV2900 & HEAVILY MODDED MF X10v3. BERESFORD SWITCHBOX. - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS. - CREEK OBH-11SE HEADPHONE AMP. -AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER22, SPOTIFY PREMIUM- OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES, KINPS CABLES, SMSL M6 MINIDAC, CHROMECAST2 AUDIO DONGLE no2 POWERED BY ANKER BATTERY PSU - FULL RANGE TWIN & SINGLE TELEFUNKEN's - TANDBERG TCD310 - CARTS.. AT95 Shibata, SHURE M55E original, JVC MD1029. - RCA CABLES BY BRIAN SPKR CABLES BY MOI HAIR BY MARCO FEET BY ELECTRICBEACH - MAINS REGENERATED BY POWERINSPIRED AND FILTERED BY BELKIN PUREAV.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

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    Thanks Marko/Grant.

    Regarding the Tannoys.

    I heard Golds vs Reds in York cabinets and to me it wasn’t just the midrange that was better, I found them more transparent too, though I will caveat this with the knowledge that the crossovers were probably not quite right/ideal at the time.

    I also found that they drove off a lower power valve amp more easily. As my knowledge of the drive units improved I began to understand that there were more changes from Golds to Reds than I had thought. (For instance the HF unit/magnets etc are all different)

    When I got my Lockwoods, they actually had re-coned early Golds. Its hard to say what exactly was wrong with them but dirt in the magnet gap, and wrong crossovers left with a harsh HF and resonance on key frequencies on piano repertory.

    I went for the Lockwood cabs as whilst I liked the better midrange of the Reds, I could hear that they were missing the LF of the Golds. The bigger volume cabs were the answer to getting the LF extension.
    However they were lightweight ply, with little bracing and old dampening cloth. Consequently they resonated at certain frequencies and made the sound quite coloured. Along the way I visited Tom to hear his Golds/GRFs. Russ C had done lots of work done to them and they were very solid and neutral sounding in comparison. They also coupled to the room and I found the natural presentation very appealing. Tom had decided to try Autographs and so I took the opportunity to purchase the cabs from him at the time.



    I never managed to directly compare the GRFs with the Lockwoods in my room as I took the option of returning the Lockwoods/Golds and to get the original Reds.

    This too wasn’t straightforward as they hadn’t been re-coned well, weren’t a matched pair and when problems with a HF unit were diagnosed I decided enough was enough. That isn’t to say that the potential with them wasn’t there but there is only so much time/effort you can put into something before you become disillusioned.
    Last edited by Mike Adams; 12-01-2017 at 14:20.
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  3. #13
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

    Posts: 320
    I'm Paul.

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    Great thread.
    This is how systems should be described .. if only we all took photos along the way, eh, I could show you my original PL-12D, Technics receiver and Solavox set-up
    Linn Sondek LP12, Ittok, A&R P77 > Musical Fidelity XLPS v3 Phono Stage
    Sony CDP-XE520 CD Player > SMSL Sanskrit DAC
    Pure DAB tuner
    Tisbury Mk.1 pre-amp > 2 x Meridian 205 monoblock power amps > Rega Jura Mk.2 speakers
    Grado SR80 headphones

    www.paulridgeblog.com

  4. #14
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

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    After all this I was glad to have something that just worked. Initially unimpressive, the RAs have really grown on me over time and are really flexible at fitting into almost any room. In fact they recommend using them pushed right up against a wall, which helps in smaller rooms that I seem to be now living in.

    Whilst all this was going on I had realised that I didn’t have a very well matched set of amplifiers for the higher sensitivity speakers that I had moved towards.

    Both Puresound L300 and Art Audio Concerto are great amps, but the high gain of the Puresound into the high sensitivity Art meant that I was having some issues with residual valve sound.

    I knew Tom had been round the houses with amplifiers and had heard his Puresound 2A3 when he had the GRFs so when this appeared for sale it seemed a good opportunity to downsize, get some cash out and still end up with a great system.



    I also got a Axia MC which is a great MC and fitted into my system really well.
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  5. #15
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

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    I still had the GRF cabs at this point and several times almost hit the button to turn into a 3 way horn system. I realized the only way to stop me doing this was to shift the cabs so swapped them in for a Art Audio Vinyl One. I had this upgraded to Reference spec and two MM inputs so I could use separate SUTs.



    I was already getting keen on trying a mono set up so now with some cash available I decided to go for it and purchased a Miyajima Zero, FR64S.
    Speedy Steve made the arm pod but typically when I came to set the arm up it was all seized up. J7 did a great job of sorting this out and I guess it is just something else to chalk up to experience.
    Last edited by Mike Adams; 16-01-2017 at 20:36.
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  6. #16
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Liking the Miyajima sound, when the opportunity to buy a KSW SUT that matched the higher end models came up I got this. After quite some time trying differing SUTs I eventually I decided that I wanted some HM7s. I bought these from the USA and had a go at DIY (OK with a LOT of help)

    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  7. #17
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 795
    I'm Adrian.

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    I'm going down this same path with suts and the KSW/Miyajima combo or another SUT - how would you compare the Hashimotos vs KSW?
    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  8. #18
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

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    This is a fair summary but as stated its system dependant, I liked the KSW enough to keep them and build the HM7s...

    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...a-brief-review
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  9. #19
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 3,951
    I'm Paul.

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    Great system Mike and great write up.

    I actually heard those GRFs at Tom's old place in Winnersh and thought that they suited the room very well. I think Tom was using a Puresound pre at the time. I also heard those Lockies, but for some reason (not evident on other Lockies) I found the bass a little muddled and they seemed to suffer from a bit of bass overhang which just coloured and muddled the midrange a little. I also am a big fan of the Miyajima sound and if funds permitted, would love to try one of their cartridges in my system. Sorry to learn of your tribulations though and it sounds like it has been some journey! Have you heard Tom's latest set up? He's really cracked at in his new place as it's one of the finest set-ups I think I've listened to in a long time and there's plenty of parallels to draw between his and your systems!

  10. #20
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Near Buxton

    Posts: 56
    I'm Mike.

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    Next came a location move, plus a drop in income…something to slow me down! One bigger open plan room with a vaulted celling, in many ways this should be better. However it doesn’t always work out as a positive and in many ways I miss the small room I had before. Whilst the room is pretty big I am sat a bit too close so can’t quite maximize the imaging.



    I also tried out loads of different valves with the Puresound, the set of RCA 2A3s in particular were great.

    Having heard Tom’s Shilabe I also wanted to try a different MC and ignoring that I couldn’t really justify it bought a Kansui to join the Zero as an all Miyajima MC set up.

    I wasn’t really getting the full use of this and the Axia is really pretty good so after about 6 months I sold this to Tom. I also did some messing about with the phono stage and had the caps changed for some NOS Hovlands which really are that good.

    All was now well…until Bob C decided to have a fire sale and I just missed out on a SJS Arcadia Pre amp
    Last edited by Mike Adams; 10-01-2017 at 19:41.
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Kansui/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Mach modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

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