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Thread: Celestion Ditton 66 recap

  1. #1
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 1,549
    I'm jamie.

    Default Celestion Ditton 66 recap

    Seeing as a few Celestion speakers have been recapped on here lately i thought my 66's should have some love
    Finished in the rare walnut veneer and cabinets marked Nov 1974 the caps are surely out of spec right? They sound so good so can they be improved?




    Here's a little mystery,the crossovers are different in the caps fitted,the mid uses a pye 24uf and an 6uf elcap electrolytic,total value 30uf.
    1 crossover board is correct,the other just has the pye,all caps except for the LF caps (which i changed last year) appear to be original to both crossovers.



    Hmmm the plot thickens!
    When removing the huge mid drivers i noticed they are the prefered newer spec MD500,the early ones being MF500.These use a total cap value of 24uf so 1 crossover is correct.



    So either someones added the newer MD500 mid drivers or these are right on the change over period,there is a stamp on the driver but its small,it looks like INSPEC 76 8OHMS.
    If this is the date then it would appear they have been added by someone later,as i doubt Celestion would have used 2 year old cabinets back in 1976? but what do i know

    I await the postman with all the caps,new binding posts and fresh copper cable,im hoping to have these back up and running by the weekend.
    My System/ KLH 23,Celestion Ditton 66,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT ,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK / MC25 FL,,Sony 700ES Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,Technics sl-pg490 CD

  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 66,444
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Oooh, interesting! As is seeing the internals of my old speakers...

    Hope it all works out, mate. Which make/type of caps are you going from and from where?

    Marco.

    P.S I'd keep hold of the original caps, just in case you need to revert back for any reason.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way and the only way, it does not exist" - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche.


    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Modified Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 1,549
    I'm jamie.

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    yes its intriguing isn't it.
    im using the same basically as ken did,alcaps for the LF, Mundorf +1% ansar poly for the MF and ansar polys for the HF .
    am i right i thinking ken compared his 66's with yours/mine at a show? i recall reading this somewhere on here and the general view was your mid range was better at the time,this would explain why as the md500 driver has a more forward sound than the earlier MF500 which should on paper be fitted on yours/mine.
    My System/ KLH 23,Celestion Ditton 66,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT ,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK / MC25 FL,,Sony 700ES Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,Technics sl-pg490 CD

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 66,444
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yeah, the comparison took place at one of the NEBO meets, with the outcome you've mentioned. Aside from the drivers, the caps in the crossovers would've also been totally different.

    In the end though, Ken's modded 66s spanked (then) mine, so the gains are there to be had!

    Marco.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way and the only way, it does not exist" - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche.


    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Modified Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 1,549
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In the end though, Ken's modded 66s spanked (then) mine, so the gains are there to be had!

    Marco.
    well if my respond that well i'll be over the moon!
    My System/ KLH 23,Celestion Ditton 66,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT ,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK / MC25 FL,,Sony 700ES Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,Technics sl-pg490 CD

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,272
    I'm David.

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    The 66's and replacement 661's have a gentle response rather than an assertive one, but the Ansars are lively and I suspect perfect for this job

    While the drivers are out, any thoughts on steel lining the cabs? Might make them less likely to be pushed over
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me; Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me.....................

  7. #7
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 1,549
    I'm jamie.

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    thats weird dave,i was thinking about steel plates to the top and bottom as they do resonate a bit when rapped with the knuckles,the sides are fine in that respect as they are well braced.
    My System/ KLH 23,Celestion Ditton 66,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT ,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK / MC25 FL,,Sony 700ES Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,Technics sl-pg490 CD

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2016

    Location: Malta

    Posts: 23
    I'm Rod.

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    Hi Jamie

    I just noticed you posted a link on your reply to Ken's thread on the 66 restoration, looks like there was some upgrading going on with the mid (MD500) drivers, have you measured the capacitance from the PYE/elcap and just PYE cap? it's possible someone just removed the elcap 6uf to balance the drivers capacitance wise without knowing the relationship between the two types of cap.

    On the subject of lining with steel panels, we (my old company) did some work with Royd Loudspeakers (as a manufacturer) some twenty years ago building prototypes in solid hardwood for a new range of theirs and he insisted on steel panels on the inside of the cabs to 'balance the sound and more importantly according to him to - speed up the transients'. But this was on much, much heavier, solid kiln-dried ash hardwood 18mm thick cabs which is in complete contrast to the lightweight particle board used on the Celestion cabs. They were heavy!

    From what we learnt, it's is very important to have a liveliness, which is frequency friendly akin to a musical instrument, to a loudspeaker cabinet otherwise the life or pace literally dies from the music, as Ken has said to me in earlier postings, on his resto thread, he had no problem sonically with the Celestion 66 cabinets other that maybe adding some mild damping to the top and bottom panels with bitumen sound deadening panels. I would agree with this to a point, not even having heard the speakers as an original pair yet, but knowing a bit about how cabinets work (hopefully). Just a side thought which is more important than my experience, Celestion would have done much research to get the sound just right on their flagship cabinets back in the day. I would respect the foundations of their endeavours.. hey they sound good don't they, so why mess with it! (unless modern knowledge makes it a no brainer)

    I just wouldn't go adding mass (not modern knowledge) to the Celestion cabs, steel panels do speed up the transients, sort of, on much heavier cabs, but not on lightweight chipboard, you have all the liveliness you want already in this well though out elegant design. Thinking back, adding steel panels to the insides of cabinets is a bit of a nightmare anyway, caused no end of problems from memory - bonding material/positioning etc.

    However some others may have great results with other types of design, that's the great thing about hi-fi there are so many paths to take to get results.
    This (steel panels) just sparked a few memories about what was tried back in the day to get better results, hope you get some benefit...

  9. #9
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 1,549
    I'm jamie.

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    wow,cheers for the info,i will leave them as they are.
    re the 72uf caps,falcon do these,they are not low loss though and to be honest i cant remember if mine were as i did them a while back.are yours marked LL?

    http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alc...le-series.html

    edit ken has confirmed they are not low loss so sorry for the confusion
    Last edited by jamie123; 10-01-2017 at 20:58.
    My System/ KLH 23,Celestion Ditton 66,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT ,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK / MC25 FL,,Sony 700ES Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,Technics sl-pg490 CD

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: cheltenham

    Posts: 165
    I'm matt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodthebod View Post
    From what we learnt, it's is very important to have a liveliness, which is frequency friendly akin to a musical instrument, to a loudspeaker cabinet otherwise the life or pace literally dies from the music,
    There are two schools of though regarding cabinets. There's the thin walled cabinet with mass damping - This gives a clean midrange and treble, but because the cabinet can flap about, the low frequencies aren't as tight as they could be.

    The other Is a rigid cabinet that drives the resonances up high in frequency. I don't think you can get the resonances high enough to take them out of the pass band but you can add damping to try to stop them ringing.

    I'm not convinced that the cabinet should act as a musical instrument. As far as I'm concerned, a speaker should reproduce sounds, not produce them.

    My own diy cabinets use constrained layer damping to give a rigid but well damped cabinet.

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