Can vinyl image like digital?

[Haselsh1]

And of course, tracking below 20Hz is seriously not a good idea unless you want to track record warps and other low frequency anomalies. This would once again cause problems with a stylus tracing a physical groove. It would also cause serious problems with loudspeaker cone excursions that would be very negative to music reproduction.

[Macca]

Technically it's a mixed bag. Vinyl carries information down into the subsonic and over 20khz - whereas digital sticks to a meagre 20hz-20khz - but many carts don't share vinyls extended frequency range and so these vital clues about spatiality are lost. Likewise most carts are limited by dynamic range and separation.

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

CD has a response of 2Hz to 20K Hz within 0.5 dB. it is flat down to 20Hz but does not cut off at that point. Also bass is recorded in stereo below 40Hz, on vinyl bass is mono at this frequency. Also, unless you are talking about recent recordings, there will be nothing on the recording above 20khz and likely nothing above 16khz due to the limitations of the equipment (mics, tape machines) in the recording studio.

Simply put, there is no technical reason whatsoever why digital would not produce holographic imaging as good as or even better than vinyl. I grant you that in the real world this is often not the case however the reasons for that are unlikely to include the frequency response of the medium which is more than adequate for 95% of recordings.

[Spectral Morn]

What a great idea Neil, can we have that as a sticky?

Not everyone lists their gear in the Welcome section. Frankly I think the gear should be listed in the opening post particularly if its of a problem solving kind, which this one is.

I went and looked and I am not familiar first hand with any of the kit so I can't offer any advice specific to it.

In a general sense I would say to Matt, change the speaker cable QED 79 strand is not what you should be using with high end gear. What is the turntable sitting on. Rega's used to be very fussy re what they sit on, almost to the point that unless it was on a wall-shelf, mounted on a solid wall it would not perform properly, air and structural vibration would muddy the performance. Modern Rega's the new design may no longer be as fussy, over and above what any turntable needs.

Don't site the turntable on a wobbly piece of furniture, don't site it on a very heavy piece of furniture. Best not to mount it in a corner behind the speakers, or directly to the side. A dedicated hifi stand is best, light weight - I think the Rega will prefer that - but one that can be levelled is vital. A turntable will never perform properly unless its fully level. Don't put the amp under the turntable, its possible that the magnetic field from the transformers might effect cartridge performance.

Dress cables so that the phono cable isn't near any mains cables.

After getting the turntable level, on a suitable dedicated HiFi table then the turntable needs to be set right. Tracking at the correct weight, bias set right. The VTA must be set right so that the cart is tracking the groove correctly. With normal vinyl and 180 gram or even 200 gram that makes things a bit harder particularly if the arm doesn't have VTA adjustment on the fly, its fixed or requires spacers to change the height. When setting this go for an average between height so I would set to suit between normal vinyl thickness and 180 gram. Its also required that the cantilever sits in the centre of the record groove so the cart must be adjusted to do so. Don't do this by the carts body as frankly very few cantilevers are mounted to be straight and symmetrical in the body, there will always be a degree of misalignment and its vital the cantilever is centre to the record groove, so both sides of the wall is read equally by the stylus.

Use a good alignment gauge, a bright light source, use a good magnifying glass. Take your time and small errors are amplified in play back so get the set up as close to perfect as you can, and you will hear that.

Hope the above helps and if you know all this then apology for trying to teaching Granny to suck.....

[Matt_J]

Yeah I listed it in my welcome post as per forum request.

I'm about to go out an donly had chance for a quick look, seems ok. What I have noticed is noisy (high pitched whistle) valve in the amp (ECC83) and have replaced it which has cured the noise, but I don't have time to test it. Although I'm not sure how that would manifest only in vinyl playback and not digital.

As for your other suggestions, thanks. TT is well sited, level and whilst not wall mounted I have solid floors and it doesn't seem to suffer from any room interaction.

Arm is fixed VTA and cart is designed for TT/arm combo so it's spot on.

Never noticed any difference from speaker cables, unless they're designed in such a bat s**t crazy way as to mess with stuff. Always had best results with simple copper cable of sufficient mm2.

[Spectral Morn]

Yeah I listed it in my welcome post as per forum request.

I'm about to go out an donly had chance for a quick look, seems ok. What I have noticed is noisy (high pitched whistle) valve in the amp (ECC83) and have replaced it which has cured the noise, but I don't have time to test it. Although I'm not sure how that would manifest only in vinyl playback and not digital.

I also wonder if 12 watts is enough to drive your Epos right. Epos of old were a hard drive. I am wondering if the difference in output between digital sources and vinyl could mean that your digital source is providing more voltage for the amp to drive the speakers and the vinyl isn't. I have heard set ups in the past that show a major deficiency re vinyl playback and work well on digital, and this because there wasn't enough signal via vinyl to amplify a hard speaker load.

[petrat]

The two most memorable/huge soundstages I've heard were both top-flight digital sources, in really large rooms. One system used Audio Physics Virgos, the other Wilson Sashas. Both had the speakers about 20 feet apart, with the listening chair more than 20 feet away, and both imaged literally 'out of the room' ... drummers out in the garden, etc. Separation of musicians was pin-point, and they both had noticable 'height' to the illusion as well. Strangely enough, I have rarely experienced the same thing at shows, even in the big rooms at Whittlebury, which leads me to think it takes quite a bit of work and luck to get it right. IME it's possible to get part-way there with near-field listening, but then you have to keep your head still ... or, in my room, sit on the floor

[Spectral Morn]

Yeah I listed it in my welcome post as per forum request.

I'm about to go out an donly had chance for a quick look, seems ok. What I have noticed is noisy (high pitched whistle) valve in the amp (ECC83) and have replaced it which has cured the noise, but I don't have time to test it. Although I'm not sure how that would manifest only in vinyl playback and not digital.

As for your other suggestions, thanks. TT is well sited, level and whilst not wall mounted I have solid floors and it doesn't seem to suffer from any room interaction.

Arm is fixed VTA and cart is designed for TT/arm combo so it's spot on.

Never noticed any difference from speaker cables, unless they're designed in such a bat s**t crazy way as to mess with stuff. Always had best results with simple copper cable of sufficient mm2.

There are shim/spacers available from Rega to raise the arm up. Of course if the bottom of the cart is parallel to the top of the vinyl then its fine.

The speaker cable you are using is only suitable for a budget system, not yours. Your comment tells me all I need to know regarding that so I will leave you to it.

[Idlewithnodrive]

IME it's possible to get part-way there with near-field listening, but then you have to keep your head still ... or, in my room, sit on the floor

I agree 100% with this. It is as much about speaker / room interaction, speaker to listener positioning as it is ancillary equipment (and recording quality of course).

My system is very low rent but my imaging is excellent, largely because I sit near field, at anally 'magic triangle' set-up dimensions, with next to no room interactions.

As Peter says, best to sit dead still for the full effect though

[337alant]

I think the imaging is a mixed bag as well depends on the actual recording and mastering
BTW R2R images very nicely as well

Alan

[dave2010]

I really don't know. I think getting the room right is very important, as well as the kit. Switching the phase of speakers (which ought really to be done by a very simple switch) or possibly even other devices in a device chain should make an audible difference if other factors are good. In some furnished rooms it is very hard to be sure which is the correct relative (L-R) phasing of stereo speaker set ups, as the furniture and reflections have a big effect. Go multi-channel (I don't suppose we're really thinking that here ...) and things will get worse. If you can't be sure of the imaging on such relative phase reversals I personally would be surprised if it made a difference what source - digital, tape, vinyl etc is used. If you have a good listening room, then there is a possibility that imaging will differ due to various factors, but without that I think other effects will be swamped by the room acoustics.