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Thread: Can vinyl image like digital?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

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    I'm Adrian.

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    I don't disagree, though having a solid performer sat between 2 Speakers isn't the same as the holographic walk aground soundstaging top flight, wide bandwidth transducers can produce.

    Adey

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    The Truth linestage
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  2. #22
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_J View Post
    No, I think I know what I meant thanks. What I get with vinyl is 2.5D at best, nothing approaching the wide expansive, pin point, holographic sound I get from a no name 50 DAC.
    Then Matt as I said there is something not right in the set up, or system synergy.
    Regards Neil

    System 1: AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Accuphase DP57 CD player, Marantz SA7 SACD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Mystra DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, Atlas Mavros, Speaker - QED Genesis Silver Spiral. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2: Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + HP laptop + iFi i power + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Dec 2014

    Location: Midlands

    Posts: 20
    I'm Matt.

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    Fair enough if that is the case, but it's not something that has suddenly happened. I just assumed my previous vinyl set ups were too low rent to show it up, now I've invested a reasonable amount in a decent analogue set up I expected a big leap in performance. That hasn't happened.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_J View Post
    Fair enough if that is the case, but it's not something that has suddenly happened. I just assumed my previous vinyl set ups were too low rent to show it up, now I've invested a reasonable amount in a decent analogue set up I expected a big leap in performance. That hasn't happened.
    I agree with Neil here Matt, maybe something is not quite right with your system set up or associated equipment?
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  5. #25
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 1,425
    I'm Adrian.

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    Daft question - is everything in phase, SRA correct, antiskate spot on....
    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  6. #26
    Join Date: Dec 2014

    Location: Midlands

    Posts: 20
    I'm Matt.

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    As far as I'm aware Adey, yes. I can check properly in the light tomorrow but there's not much to go wrong really, it's all straight forward stuff.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 1,425
    I'm Adrian.

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    Hahaha - perfect vinyl playback is anything but simple and can at times take my breath away and at others make me wish I had a CD players consistency!

    But as others have said there's something wrong if you're only getting a 2D sound - that isn't vinyl, even with a 25 cart.

    Make sure you're phono leads aren't wired out of phase, or the cart is out of phase - check the cart isn't phase inverting, or your phono stage. An out of phase system normally presents a flat wall of sound - in my experience, others may think differently.

    You could experiment and try inverting one channel at the cart tags, see how it sounds, then invert the other - it's easy to check. If that doesn't help repeat but inverting at the binding posts of a speaker (s) - if the cart end fixes it then the problem is with the front end. If it's fixed by inverting a speaker (s) then it's somewhere in the chain between TT and speakers.

    Grrrr
    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  8. #28
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 16,637
    I'm Neil.

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    What is your system, all of it please, room size etc too. Post some photos would be helpful too. Let's see if anything obvious jumps out as not being right.
    Regards Neil

    System 1: AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Accuphase DP57 CD player, Marantz SA7 SACD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Mystra DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, Atlas Mavros, Speaker - QED Genesis Silver Spiral. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2: Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + HP laptop + iFi i power + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

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    I'm Shaun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Technically it's a mixed bag. Vinyl carries information down into the subsonic and over 20khz - whereas digital sticks to a meagre 20hz-20khz - but many carts don't share vinyls extended frequency range and so these vital clues about spatiality are lost. Likewise most carts are limited by dynamic range and separation.

    Of course some break this norm, the Clear Audio Goldfinger has 90db dynamic range (if memory serves), and whilst most carts struggle for 30db separation my Allaerts cruises at 70db separation - the top one at around 90db.

    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Yes I agree with the brickwall filtering on CD but vinyl has a lump of rock tracking a physical groove and the limitations there are massive. All low frequency information on vinyl has to be cut in mono otherwise it cannot be tracked, all extreme stereo effects have to be closed in otherwise once again it cannot be tracked. That stylus is so restricted in its operation that it is never going to have the freedom of digital regardless of how expensive that cartridge was.

    These limitations are physical and fixed. CD does not suffer the same kind of limitations even though it has its own set of limits.
    Among the many: Ozric Tentacles early years - Genesis early years - Pink Floyd - Brand X - Camel - Shpongle - Younger Brother - The Peaking Goddess Collective - Deadmau5 - Trentemoller - Kiasmos - Acoustic Alchemy - John Coltraine - Hank Mobley - Lee Morgan - And Oasis...!

  10. #30
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: St Leonard's on Sea

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    I'm Loz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    What is your system, all of it please, room size etc too. Post some photos would be helpful too. Let's see if anything obvious jumps out as not being right.

    What a great idea Neil, can we have that as a sticky?
    Thorens TD160. Denon DL-110. Arcam DV137. RPI with Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC and Chromecast Audio.
    Firebottle +. Arcam Delta 60. Adam Audio Artist 5 and Kef Reference 103. MS Audio/Klotz MC5000 and Fisual Hollywood Dark Twist.

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