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Thread: Can vinyl image like digital?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    You feel you could walk about in the soundstage from my Yatra.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    I think that without doubt a lot is dependent on the recording but a lot of my synth based music has some phenomenal 180 degree imaging that I very rarely hear from vinyl. Also of course there are some phase separations that cannot be tracked by a stylus and bass and other low frequencies that have to be in mono only on vinyl. Once again, I think that vinyl shows its age when asked to do things that it cannot do and I think that in itself is part of the problem. If we ask vinyl to keep within its envelope there is no problem at all.
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  3. #13
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    I think that without doubt a lot is dependent on the recording but a lot of my synth based music has some phenomenal 180 degree imaging that I very rarely hear from vinyl.
    Interesting, because it's when I'm listening to electronic music that I notice it the most.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    Vinyl - but it takes a pretty special set up (not only hardware but correct alignment, vtf, sra, and azimuth). I listen to a lot of electronica and the 3 dimensional, walk around soundstage is phenomenal if it's on the vinyl in the first place. Soundstage is a real priority for me, depth, width, height. Last night listening to FSOL i was mesmerised not only by spectacular depth but the most delicious percussion floating above everything at ceiling height. Yes, a little sad maybe...

    Adey

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  5. #15
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_J View Post
    Interesting, because it's when I'm listening to electronic music that I notice it the most.
    All I can add is that I have never heard it from any of my vinyl turntables in the past but I am always aware of it with digital. Now once again that could be to do with mixing and mastering about which I have no knowledge so it is possible that things are very toned down for vinyl because of its serious limitations when compared to CD. My best vinyl LP for imaging is 'Beaucoup Fish' by Underworld. Brilliant.
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_J View Post
    My digital source cost about 100 new, my analogue source cost about 2k USED.

    And yet I would say pretty much most of the time the digital source images much better and can do the whole 3D holographic thing much better also, I do love vinyl and it is my primary source but when I play something off the digital source I do often think I'm missing out on a lot.
    Err I think you should put the question the other way round. Can digital image like vinyl. Just remember digital is not great at imaging especially 3D imaging as most DACs cannot reproduce the transient micro information that analogue and vinyl does naturally. There are some DACs which can do this but they are very expensive!

    By transient information I mean the tiny bits of reflected and non reflected acoustic information that tells the ear / brain the spatial position of a sound. Digital does not do this well at all and can be very phasey therefore not giving a pin point image.

    Of course others may disagree but I know what my brain and ears tell me and I am lucky enough to hear what the very best digital systems are capable of in an ideal acoustic set up.

    Vinyl does not really have to try hard to do this at all, even my girlfriends 1976 music centre does a good job of imaging!

  7. #17
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    Technically it's a mixed bag. Vinyl carries information down into the subsonic and over 20khz - whereas digital sticks to a meagre 20hz-20khz - but many carts don't share vinyls extended frequency range and so these vital clues about spatiality are lost. Likewise most carts are limited by dynamic range and separation.

    Of course some break this norm, the Clear Audio Goldfinger has 90db dynamic range (if memory serves), and whilst most carts struggle for 30db separation my Allaerts cruises at 70db separation - the top one at around 90db.

    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
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    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
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    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    Hawkwind - Warrior on the Edge of Time, vinyl, not an original pressing, bought in the mid 80s if I recall right.

    Imaging, separation, depth, bass, detail, layering that vastly out performed CD, and DVD Audio. That's one example I have experienced in the recent past, simply stunning and pissed over all my digital sources and that includes a Moon Andromeda and an Esoteric P5, D5 pairing.
    Regards Neil

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  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Technically it's a mixed bag. Vinyl carries information down into the subsonic and over 20khz - whereas digital sticks to a meagre 20hz-20khz - but many carts don't share vinyls extended frequency range and so these vital clues about spatiality are lost. Likewise most carts are limited by dynamic range and separation.

    Of course some break this norm, the Clear Audio Goldfinger has 90db dynamic range (if memory serves), and whilst most carts struggle for 30db separation my Allaerts cruises at 70db separation - the top one at around 90db.

    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    The vital clues about spatiality don't depend on a cartridge having the extreme range you are talking about, hence my partners 1976 music centre with an AT95e can do pin point imaging with ease.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    I'm Matt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Err I think you should put the question the other way round.
    No, I think I know what I meant thanks. What I get with vinyl is 2.5D at best, nothing approaching the wide expansive, pin point, holographic sound I get from a no name 50 DAC.

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