DIY RCA cables - pure silver vs silver coated copper

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Perhaps mis matched and haphazard forms of Zobel networks already exist in line level equipment with many different RC ( resistive capacitive ) components, and this is what we are hearing
as perceived cable difference.

More examination of all components each end of a cable would start to unravel good or not so good practice, rather than believing the cable
is the single contributor.

Cheers / Chris

[Stryder5]

Perhaps mis matched and haphazard forms of Zobel networks already exist in line level equipment with many different RC ( resistive capacitive ) components, and this is what we are hearing
as perceived cable difference.

More examination of all components each end of a cable would start to unravel good or not so good practice, rather than believing the cable
is the single contributor.

Cheers / Chris

Absolutely wonderful , I love it. I think most of us say cable, when we actually mean an assembly of cable and connectors.

Lovely can of worms

Gary

[farflungstar]

I hope I haven't offended anyone - wasn't my intention. But it's not on that whilst I accept some folks can't hear differences between cables they can't take my opinion/experience with the same grace but resort to ridicule or attempts to explain it away as something else.

When you have my system, my ears, my room and listen you cannot judge what I'm hearing or why.

If my partner slips a new interconnect into my system without me knowing and upon my next listening session I complain that something has changed this cannot be expectation, imagination or anything other than the effects of the new interloper. But maybe I'm psychic and knew all about the change....

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

I hope I haven't offended anyone - wasn't my intention. But it's not on that whilst I accept some folks can't hear differences between cables they can't take my opinion/experience with the same grace but resort to ridicule or attempts to explain it away as something else.

I find the different effects different cables (can) have on the sound perfectly audible and often not subtle either. I refer to analogue interconnects, speaker cables and last but not least 'digital' interconnects.

My feeling is that those who say these differences do not exist or cannot be heard, either refuse to make comparisons or have equipment too inadequate to show up the changes in sound.

Any suggestion that perceived changes may be imagined should not be taken seriously. Most of us have a perfectly decent set of ears and good perceptive skills.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I hope I haven't offended anyone - wasn't my intention. But it's not on that whilst I accept some folks can't hear differences between cables they can't take my opinion/experience with the same grace but resort to ridicule or attempts to explain it away as something else.

When you have my system, my ears, my room and listen you cannot judge what I'm hearing or why.

If my partner slips a new interconnect into my system without me knowing and upon my next listening session I complain that something has changed this cannot be expectation, imagination or anything other than the effects of the new interloper. But maybe I'm psychic and knew all about the change....

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

Your experience will always be your own, what the contributors are trying to do is work through perhaps a common denominator
that can be arrived at, that benefits everyone. I am suggesting more examination of the components each end of a cable
internally at the source, midway at the attenuator and lastly at the power amp would help to unravel why cables behave as they do.

If you take the time to read Cyril Batemans article, he is applying solid electronics principles to examining speaker cables
and from this suggests a second and perhaps a third Zobel network apply, with the amplifier cable speaker relationship.

What I am suggesting is that perhaps the benefit this technique brings, also extends to examination of all components
( yes a big can of worms ) from source to power amp, What is being heard as one cable difference to another is not necessarily
the cable itself - even though it appears to be the single contributor, rather it is the other components each end of that cable
internally that are assisting or not assisting as the case may be. End result being the casual end user assesses says Yes it is the cable, when
actually it is many other components not being seen or being considered.

We place trust in manufacturers to get this right, but a quick look at just sensitivity specifications for equipment
proves there is no agreement. You can have with power amps anything from 200mv sensitivity to 3 volts or more.

I think it was Ben Duncan referencing the famous book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig who said
"As one door opens, many thousands below it are also flung open "

[farflungstar]

I can understand that - I'm quite sure the whole is connected and am happy to agree that it is the change in interaction between components being fed or feeding the 'new' conduit that accounts for the majority of perceived change. That's been my thinking all along - i understand that the reason the isolda 'sounds' so resolving is most likely the affect its capacitance/inductance is having on the amps and speakers. But that in itself tells you it's the different cable/construction that is ultimately causing the effect, ergo it's the cable. The problem is this cannot be universally defined or applied - unless everyone had the same amps, speakers etc, because of interaction.

I still believe high purity, single core copper is the best choice - but that's just my opinion. I also think dielectrics and construction plays a major role in changing the characteristics of the cable/interaction.

Rather than being harangued it would be more useful if non believers asked 'what changes did you hear? Why do you think you heard them? Have you considered it may be ...?'

Most of us are open to rational debate - and nothing is ever black and white, but it isn't those who believe in cable affects that start shouting Tosh and Utter rubbish at non believers - it's the other way round - always.

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[Firebottle]

I find the different effects different cables (can) have on the sound perfectly audible and often not subtle either.

My feeling is that those who say these differences do not exist or cannot be heard, either refuse to make comparisons or have equipment too inadequate to show up the changes in sound.

Any suggestion that perceived changes may be imagined should not be taken seriously. Most of us have a perfectly decent set of ears and good perceptive skills.

This ^^^

[Gordon Steadman]

It seems to me that to suggest that those who do not believe in the whole cable thing must have lesser equipment is as unpleasant as to suggest that those who do are imagining it.

I am firmly in the flash cables are a waste of time camp, have been for the last 50 years. This is not to say they don't change the sound. When I had a set of ears that worked properly, I could hear differences just not improvements. Nice thick copper has always been my choice. Anything that changed the sound was just doing that as far as I'm concerned. If you prefer the changed sound fine but you won't convince me you have higher fidelity, merely changed.

Quite why this subject causes such intense emotion is a mystery but then what isn't about human belief systems? Nowt as queer as folk and even thee's a little queer - probably a bit un PC these days but still as true as ever

[Reffc]

The principles of twisted pair, and coax are well researched, as guards against interference, so
preserving the media over the given length. These principles are well practiced by every cable manufacturer.

What we see from this when applied to audio systems is a cable with characteristic impedance, but partnering
equipment not satisfying that impedance, and for good reason, as audio systems are generally not regarded as transmission lines.

Suggested by Cyril Bateman applying to amp speaker cable relationship is an insight that reflections do occur
at the upper limits of our perception. http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/...nteraction.pdf
and the upper limit of our hearing is researched by David Blackmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_E._Blackmer

So on one hand we borrow a attribute of transmission lines to guard against interference, but the asset of transmission lines applying
at audio frequencies to interconnects, just does not apply.

What is interesting though is applying Zobel networks as Bateman suggests.

Cheers / Chris

I'd agree with most of that but would add that audio systems are never considered as transmission lines, because really they're not. Guarding against interference is not uniquely exclusive to transmission line theory. Moving on though, the points made earlier are pretty important, ie about what the cables are connected to. Far too often, cables are considered in isolation within a system, and conclusions made about effects attributed to cables alone, when the truth is they are simply a part of an overall circuit and have a part to play in terms of the effects (or not) of (mostly) L, C or R.

No-one with an open mind would discount that changes often can be heard when switching things about but often, the cause is attributed solely to a cable, in terms of "what the cable sounds like" when actually, it has no sound. What may result in one system may not be repeatable in another because the circuit itself is different and perhaps general thinking needs to be less closed minded an open to what effect changes made have had on the circuit being connected, not just one individual part thereof. It's a good way of thinking about "synergy", the right things that come together to make a system work well.

[Reffc]

Ha. I wondered when somebody would pick up on that. Mylar (Melinex) film has to be vapour deposit coated with Aluminium (normally) before it can act as an RFi shield.

To be fair Geoff, I referred to Mylar Foil (as in metalised Mylar) so my comments stand