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Thread: DIY RCA cables - pure silver vs silver coated copper

  1. #11
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 595
    I'm Adrian.

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    Here are George Cardas' 2 cents on the subject:

    "Q&A with George Cardas

    jude: All of your interconnects are made with copper conductors. And in one of your catalogs is the following quote: "Copper has proven to be the best conductor for an audio signal..." Lately there has been a strong emphasis on silver conductors by many cable manufacturers. In general, do you consider copper a better conductor for an audio signal than silver?

    George Cardas: In general, yes. We make the majority of all the ultra pure copper and silver used in high-end audio; but I choose to use only the ultra pure, ultra soft copper in my personal products.

    jude: Why?

    George Cardas: For starters, it sounds better. Silver is the best DC conductor, but, embodiment for embodiment, it is more inductive than copper. This trait, combined with its inherently lower loss, accounts for the bright, fatiguing quality of most of the silver cables (silver has approximately 5% more skin effect than copper). There have been many attempts at silver cables but little success. I think the problem in part is the cost of doing a proper conductor out of the metal. By the time the manufacturer buys the metal, there is little budget for a properly designed conductor; so they just use a monofilament solid core. This complicates an already bright situation. Silver is also a relatively hard metal and difficult to anneal. Hard coppers (linear crystal, etc.) also failed because of their tendency to ring mechanically. Electrically, silver is like a speaker box with no damping material. It will be more efficient, but it will have a definite "sound". All in all, your money is far better spent on good conductor geometry and copper.

    jude: What is your opinion of silver-plated and/or silver-clad copper as an audio conductor?

    George Cardas: Silly. The propagation and transfer impedance of the metals differs and their juncture is diodic. Ensuring a constant transfer is important. Silver and plating make some sense in very high frequency applications, such as video, but are not a good idea in audio."

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  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 1,813
    I'm Oliver.

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    Well that's pretty definitive.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Mission 774 OG Tonearm > Toshiba SR 370 Turntable > ZYX R50 Bloom cartridge > Firebottle OTP Phono Stage > Firebottle Monoblocks > Fisual Hollywood Speaker Cables > Pioneer CS-77A Speakers

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London, UK

    Posts: 508
    I'm Lawrence.

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    I'm currently enjoying the diy silver braided interconnects in my system I bought off this or another forum so by most of the arguments above (except the potential skin effect issue) chucking some copper into the equation should improve matters!


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  4. #14
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 674
    I'm Chris.

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    But skirting around the real issues, namely he is a cable manufacturer , and is not informing
    that ideally there should be as little plug socket connection as possible, as they are yet another form of switch
    involving audio signals passing from one surface to another.

    What he would like to say is either solder all connections or better still weld them , but is not quite that brave,
    as are very few of us.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 595
    I'm Adrian.

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    Yes he's a cable manufacturer - saying use good copper - so what's your point? Here's not saying use silver or anything esoteric...

    Adey

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    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 3,942
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Well that's pretty definitive.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Is it though?

    I agree with some of what he's written but certainly not all of it.

    Nothing is definitive unless evidenced.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 595
    I'm Adrian.

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    Please provide the evidence that explains why we cry or feel uplifted by a piece if music....

    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
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    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 1,813
    I'm Oliver.

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    All I know for 100% is I have used

    99.9% pure silver tonearm wire
    99.9% pure copper tonearm wire

    Copper Klotz interconnects with MSAudio rhodium plugs

    And finally

    Silver plated interconnects with MSAudio rhodium plugs

    In my system right now I have

    Copper in the tonearm and silver plated Interconnects and it sounds bloody fantastic. I don't care if it's distortion that makes it sound so good, it just sounds wonderful.

    The silver plate cable came from Firebottle who informs me it's 3 per meter.

    Incidentally, I have copper from CD to amp. Which also sounds fabulous.

    Make of that what you will

    I think a lot depends on the components and matching the right cables to them.

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    Mission 774 OG Tonearm > Toshiba SR 370 Turntable > ZYX R50 Bloom cartridge > Firebottle OTP Phono Stage > Firebottle Monoblocks > Fisual Hollywood Speaker Cables > Pioneer CS-77A Speakers

  9. #19
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 595
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Agreed.
    Adey

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  10. #20
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 3,507
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Here are George Cardas' 2 cents on the subject:

    "Q&A with George Cardas

    jude: All of your interconnects are made with copper conductors. And in one of your catalogs is the following quote: "Copper has proven to be the best conductor for an audio signal..." Lately there has been a strong emphasis on silver conductors by many cable manufacturers. In general, do you consider copper a better conductor for an audio signal than silver?

    George Cardas: In general, yes. We make the majority of all the ultra pure copper and silver used in high-end audio; but I choose to use only the ultra pure, ultra soft copper in my personal products.

    jude: Why?

    George Cardas: For starters, it sounds better. Silver is the best DC conductor, but, embodiment for embodiment, it is more inductive than copper. This trait, combined with its inherently lower loss, accounts for the bright, fatiguing quality of most of the silver cables (silver has approximately 5% more skin effect than copper). There have been many attempts at silver cables but little success. I think the problem in part is the cost of doing a proper conductor out of the metal. By the time the manufacturer buys the metal, there is little budget for a properly designed conductor; so they just use a monofilament solid core. This complicates an already bright situation. Silver is also a relatively hard metal and difficult to anneal. Hard coppers (linear crystal, etc.) also failed because of their tendency to ring mechanically. Electrically, silver is like a speaker box with no damping material. It will be more efficient, but it will have a definite "sound". All in all, your money is far better spent on good conductor geometry and copper.

    jude: What is your opinion of silver-plated and/or silver-clad copper as an audio conductor?

    George Cardas: Silly. The propagation and transfer impedance of the metals differs and their juncture is diodic. Ensuring a constant transfer is important. Silver and plating make some sense in very high frequency applications, such as video, but are not a good idea in audio."

    Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk
    Utter rubbish! Obviously written in the hope that no one with any knowledge of electricity reads it!! The barefaced lies from some in the industry are beyond a joke....
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

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