Tuners ... are they all pretty much the same ?

[User211]

If this is in relation to my post on page 1 of this thread, the article in the magazine was giving details of URL's with decent quality streams of some of the BBC's Radio O/P. No mention was made (by the magazine or by me in the post) of FM being turned off in 2017.

As far as I know it has been 'put back' now to the 2020's. No definite dates set.

Jim.

They can't switch it off. Too many cars don't have DAB. Majority of radio listening is done in the car I'd guess.

Note cars don't have house roof aerials and reception is generally fine. Most portable sets also manage well without one unless you are in the sticks.

I had a Mission tuner once, spent a fortune on a good aerial and it made no practical difference. Be careful. Don't waste your money.

[JimC]

This dates from 2008 and is by no means what is going to happen.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...nal_Report.pdf

Page 24 makes interesting reading.

It is just a report prepared for the Government.

Jim.

[Arkless Electronics]

They can't switch it off. Too many cars don't have DAB. Majority of radio listening is done in the car I'd guess.

Note cars don't have house roof aerials and reception is generally fine. Most portable sets also manage well without one unless you are in the sticks.

I had a Mission tuner once, spent a fortune on a good aerial and it made no practical difference. Be careful. Don't waste your money.

This is the general theory I've seen in a few places, including things from "they" who would like to switch it off... It won't happen until nearly all cars have DAB radios installed and probably till some time in the 2020's.

As to the aerial comment I obviously say the exact opposite... and the worse the tuner the more important the aerial! For a Troughline to give good results you need a seriously good aerial. I use just a simple dipole here as I'm not that serious a radio listener (loads for background but rarely as a primary source in my main system), with a Hitachi FT55000 the sound is still pretty good.. hiss is noticeable but not in yer face and distortion is generally not audible. If I drag a Troughline and decoder out and use the same aerial the hiss is awful and distortion is present on most stations.
Much does depend on your location though and it is possible to be in such a favourable one that any modern tuner with "up to par" specifications will give as good as it's going to get on a fairly modest aerial such as a 2-3 element Yagi.

As I mentioned earlier, too much signal is a common problem as well.. but not always too much of the channel you want... cross modulation can mean a very strong signal elsewhere on the band can overload the front end (yes the technical term is "front end" believe it or not) and cause hiss and distortion on the channel you want to listen to. In bad cases one may need a very directional aerial to get the multipath low enough, preferably with a rotator, and then attenuate the signal to avoid cross modulation issues.... if really keen a high "Q" preselector can be used as well but we're getting into the realms of the radio ham and "DX'er" now

In radio circles cross modulation is pretty much the most important and talked about parameter BTW.... the keen could look up "IP3 intercept point"...

[Barry]

Late to the party, but I would like to confirm that the Leak 'Troughline' tuner is a highly over-rated design: a very warm, sweet and 'cuddly' sound, making speech far too deep in tone to sound realistic. It was an interesting design using an original idea to avoid the tuner drifting out of tune with time as it 'warmed up'.

Contemporary UK tuners of the time, such as the Quad FM2 were better in that respect. However whilst they were adequate as regards sensitivity and sensitivity for the broadcast conditions of the time; the UK then only having a few broadcasing stations, they are not best suited for current UK broadcasting with the greatly increased number of stations to choose from. So if one wishes to choose to use a vintage tuner, it would be better to look at American designs from Scott, Fisher, Marantz and McIntosh. These were designed to have higher sensitivity and selectivity to cope with the plethora of low power FM broadcast stations. Many of these now command ridiculous prices today, so it is worth considering '70s Japanese tuners from say Trio (Kenwood), and Yamaha instead. These are very well built and have a similarly high specification to their American cousins.

If you are only interested in listening to a few powerful UK stations and want a 'vintage' design from a British manufacturer, I would consider Quad FM2 and FM3, Sugden R51, and Rogers (as well as the Leak 'Stereofetic' design).

I'm not familiar with more recent FM tuners, but if I wanted a European design, I would look at Revox, B&O, as well as the Linn 'Kremlin'.


Since I only listen to BBC Radio 3 and Radio 4, and occasionally Jazz FM, I'm quite happy with the Quad FM4 for both performance and sound quality.



Also I would agree a good rooftop mounted antenna/aerial (both terms are acceptable) is essential if you are serious about FM reception. It needn't be elaborate: I use a simple 3-element Yagi and can easily pick up the local radio stations that are only intended to be received in London.

[Arkless Electronics]

I would disagree that the Quad FM2 beats the Troughline. There's not a load in it but I reckon the Leak to be better in most areas. It was about the best UK tuner at that time. For best results you need to do the conversion of the front end RF amp to an ECC88 as was done as standard in the stereo version (Troughline 3).
When correctly aligned and when using the multiplex output straight into a good decoder they sound much better than the over warm lush sound which you rightly describe as the sound of a standard one. Still not quite as good as a modern tuner though and still with a need for a serious aerial.

The best sounding old UK tuners I've come across are probably the Rogers ones... but they're far worse than any of the above for anything but absolute sound quality under perfect reception conditions! No good for more than one station as well as they have only 3 pre tuned channels!

[Barry]

I would disagree that the Quad FM2 beats the Troughline. There's not a load in it but I reckon the Leak to be better in most areas. It was about the best UK tuner at that time. For best results you need to do the conversion of the front end RF amp to an ECC88 as was done as standard in the stereo version (Troughline 3).
When correctly aligned and when using the multiplex output straight into a good decoder they sound much better than the over warm lush sound which you rightly describe as the sound of a standard one. Still not quite as good as a modern tuner though and still with a need for a serious aerial.

The best sounding old UK tuners I've come across are probably the Rogers ones... but they're far worse than any of the above for anything but absolute sound quality under perfect reception conditions! No good for more than one station as well as they have only 3 pre tuned channels!

To my ears it does, and my Leak is a Troughline 3 with an ECC88 front end (and here tube 'rolling' helps a little to ameliorate the problem). The only thing I prefer about the Leak over the FM2 is the flywheel tuning.

[Arkless Electronics]

To my ears it does, and my Leak is a Troughline 3 with an ECC88 front end (and here tube 'rolling' helps a little to ameliorate the problem). The only thing I prefer about the Leak over the FM2 is the flywheel tuning.

Are you using the original Mullard OEM stereo decoder though? With this fitted it sounds bloody awful!! A muddy wool fest!

I like the neon tuning indicators on the Quad but prefer the magic eye on the Leak...

[Barry]

I don't know - I'll have to check, but most likely 'yes'. Haven't listened to either for years though.

I did find changing the ECF80 cathode follower in the Leak greatly helped improve the output level, as well as lessening the unaturally chesty sound of voices.

[dave2010]

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For the really keen a rotator is useful and a variable RF attenuator. Yes attenuator. Too much signal from a different station to the one you want can cause all sorts of problems due to a phenomenon called cross modulation...

You are taking this to the stratosphere! My JVC tuner has inbuilt attenuators, several, switchable, to help people living next to transmitters, and also a switchable IF to give a narrower bandwidth for some difficult situations. As I recall it also has a stereo blend for low signals to minimise hiss on very weak signals. It doesn't correlate with a rotator, though.

Largely irrelevant now, as most stations can be picked up over digital networks on the internet.

[JimC]

.....For best results you need to do the conversion of the front end RF amp to an ECC88 as was done as standard in the stereo version (Troughline 3)...............

What was in there originally and what benefits does this give?

J.