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Thread: Waiting for the Truth

  1. #151
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Leesville, SC, USA

    Posts: 11
    I'm Ed.

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    Well, I was not going to post anymore to avoid breaking rules but this needs to be cleared up. Chris, your definitions are simply wrong. Please see this definition of a Photocell also known as an LDR (light dependent resistor). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoresistor The device (an LDR) is not a 4 legged device with integral LED. That is an optocoupler. It is a "light dependent resistor", 2 legs, pretty straight forward. The definition is clear as is the description.....LDR means "light dependent resistor"...it does NOT mean LDR encapsulated with an LED. That is a 4 legged device and by definition is NOT an LDR but may contain one (or something else). Here is an optocoupler as described by the manufacturer,,,, http://www.newark.com/advanced-photo...00v/dp/71C0279

    As you can see An LDR is one thing and an optocoupler is a different thing by both definition and operation. While they both use light to vary the resistance the two do have definitions as to what they are. Also, there is no requirement the light source be an LED in the case of an LDR. Optocouplers in audio have "problems" but it's not my job to explain them or even care about them. I only care that folks understand the proper terms. LDR...2 legged device...."light dependent resistor"......4 legged device containing LED and LDR is an optocoupler.....by definition from the manufacturer.. "The NSL-32SR2 is an O/P Resistive Optocoupler, consists of an LED input optically coupled to a photocell".
    Ed

  2. #152
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed

    schilling;836801
    Well, I was not going to post anymore to avoid
    breaking rules but this needs to be cleared up. Chris, your definitions
    are simply wrong. Please see this definition of a Photocell also known
    as an LDR (light dependent resistor).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoresistor The device (an
    LDR) is not a 4 legged device with integral LED. That is an optocoupler.
    It is a "light dependent resistor", 2 legs, pretty straight forward.
    The definition is clear as is the description.....LDR means "light
    dependent resistor"...it does NOT mean LDR encapsulated with an LED.
    That is a 4 legged device and by definition is NOT an LDR but may
    contain one (or something else). Here is an optocoupler as described by
    the manufacturer,,,,
    http://www.newark.com/advanced-photo...00v/dp/71C0279



    As you can see An LDR is one thing and an optocoupler is a different
    thing by both definition and operation. While they both use light to
    vary the resistance the two do have definitions as to what they are.
    Also, there is no requirement the light source be an LED in the case of
    an LDR. Optocouplers in audio have "problems" but it's not my job to
    explain them or even care about them. I only care that folks understand
    the proper terms. LDR...2 legged device...."light dependent
    resistor"......4 legged device containing LED and LDR is an
    optocoupler.....by definition from the manufacturer.. "The NSL-32SR2 is
    an O/P Resistive Optocoupler, consists of an LED
    input optically coupled to a photocell".
    Ed
    Hi Ed
    Even the manufacturers struggle using numerous terms and resort to aka ,
    really not a good way to convince persons buying is it.
    We are placed to suggest better terms to the primary present
    manufacturer Luna, which is where our combined efforts should go.
    Or to some how insist Optocoupler preferably Audiohm be the only term
    used to describe the 4 legged type. The NSL32SR3 could read
    for instance NSL32SR3 Audiohm

    Let me explain some of the reasons why:

    Their present description of photocells is photocell technology (also
    known as photoconductive cell, light dependent resistor, photoresistor
    or photoconductor )
    given it is easy to use one term and not many... that what you use is
    simply "photocell technology" Does that sound sensible ?

    Also optocuplers can describe transistor optocouplers or fet
    optocouplers and hundreds of other optocoupler types
    So referring to the 4 pin variety as optocouplers is vague, some other
    terms you were not aware of are Optoisolator Photocell describing
    a NSL32SR3 at DigiKey a major US supplier
    http://www.digikey.co.nz/products/en?keywords=NSL32SR3

    If we can agree on "Photocell technology" it will make it easier to know
    what you offer, which I do not think has been in dispute all along.

    Neither has to the best of my knowledge, ever been any confusion with
    the terms I have used and the product supplied. Rather this has just
    cropped up, and it is decent of us both to outline some of what we know -
    and love to do.

    But this is your space... talking of which I would take Marco up on his offer
    of a Trade Account too, as you then have the freedom to contribute and tell
    us all more about you and what what you build, vs interpretations.

    Plus its the very best forum to be involved with on the
    planet and sometimes off the planet too -if you get my drift.
    Try Three Words Daily for instance.

    I know of cheeky efforts expressing the exact opposite to call photocell
    technology - optocouplers, Yes it happened
    Casco Silonex at the European Union were patiently explaining the
    difference between what they made Yes as Optocouplers but
    a cheeky Chinese firm as I recall called Macron calling their product
    what we know as a two legged photocell the same type or
    very close in your own product ( you think I am about to type LDR ) but
    NO they were calling their two legged device to deliberately
    muddy the water "Macron Opto Coupler Devices" They can't have it both
    ways... until you realize they were getting free advertisement
    fully realizing if they associated their product with Silonex's ( Now
    called Luna ) they could move up the stock market index. The sad
    thing was the EU did not get, or understand the wider implications.

    I would like to spend a few days researching the history that has been
    archived, as aka's suggest earlier historical terms
    were prevalent, Optocouplers which I also referred to as Audiohms it
    is for the moment, Audiohms sound sensible describing the 4 legged type
    A few months at the other forums discussing could redefine Silonex's cute name
    associating with audio purpose. What do you think ?

    At least I was half way there . Great we
    can have pleasant sensible dialogue. Nice meeting you too in a virtual
    sense.

    Cheers / Chris
    Last edited by Light Dependant Resistor; 20-02-2017 at 13:12.

  3. #153
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    Yes, Light Dependent Resistors are resistors, and like nearly all resistors have two legs.

    Optocouplers or photocouplers is a more vague term which may refer to an LDR and an LED in a single package or may refer to one or more phototransistors or photodiodes in a package with one or more LEDs. Here's a page full of variations on the theme if anyone is interested.
    https://www.rapidonline.com/photocouplers

  4. #154
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Yes,
    Light Dependent Resistors are resistors, and like nearly all resistors
    have two legs.

    Optocouplers or photocouplers is a more vague term which may refer to an
    LDR and an LED in a single package or may refer to one or more
    phototransistors or photodiodes in a package with one or more LEDs.
    Here's a page full of variations on the theme if anyone is interested.
    https://www.rapidonline.com/photocouplers
    Hi Andrew
    Nothing in the first section what you just said associates LDR's with photocell technology the primary description
    given by Luna. In fact distances further suggesting that LDR's are just resistors and something different altogether not associated
    with illuminated energy causing photoresistive change ... you are making a lot of work for me ... so slow down just a bit please,
    and read carefully what has been written and discussed.

    In the link you provided Yes grand evidence of the points I just made ... 31 devices called photocouplers the long distant cousin - just kidding
    of optocouplers... If I spend a day I can find thousands of optocouplers but none are Audiohms

    But here flying in the face of what Ed wrote is Element 14 describing NSL32SR types as LDR's Photocell / LDR Output Optocouplers (10)
    http://nz.element14.com/webapp/wcs/s...t=optocouplers
    If a very major electronics distributor is disagreeing with Wikipedia .. perhaps the Titanic will sail into Portsmouth tomorrow or my breakfast will be
    made when I wake up.


    Ed, awaiting his reply can confirm Photocell Technology for his product the two legged type , and Audiohms the cute
    term Silonex came up with for the 4 legged type, until forums elsewhere have contributed. I think thats a good way for proceeding.
    I need to go to bed, so please await Ed's reply on this point, but talk otherwise as much as is needed.

    Cheers / Chris

  5. #155
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    ^ I really don't have any idea what any of that meant.
    The devices shown in the pictures of The Truth (post #105) look exactly like these to me
    https://www.rapidonline.com/12mm-lig...non-rohs-82713

    They are resistors which vary in resistance dependent on the amount of light which shines on them, hence they're known as Light Dependent Resistors or LDRs. I can't see what's complicated about that.

    BTW, you will notice from the link that those particular LDRs are RoHS Non Compliant, meaning they're not strictly legal for use in commercial products in the EU. That's because they contain cadmium.

  6. #156
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

    Posts: 1,930
    I'm James.

    Default

    Bloody ek this is making my head hurt, I'm going to have to re read again, and again etc ..........
    novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, Arcam A39, roksan k3 power amp,Monitor Audio Monitor 50, Dali spektor 1, van damme interconnects and speaker cable, roskan k3 CD player

  7. #157
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Yes, it's starting to make my head hurt as well! What was a thread about a linestage preamp seems to have turned into an argument about how many legs a Light Dependent Resistor has. Or something

  8. #158
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Ah, but the pertinent question is this:

    Can a three-legged donkey, during a leap year, dance better than a 4-legged one now, and if so, is the phenomenon highlighted best by the Cha-Cha-Cha or the Boogie-Woogie?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #159
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ah, but the pertinent question is this:

    Can a three-legged donkey, during a leap year, dance better than a 4-legged one now, and if so, is the phenomenon highlighted best by the Cha-Cha-Cha or the Boogie-Woogie?

    Marco.

    But Marco you have failed to set out your measurement criteria ...

  10. #160
    Join Date: Feb 2014

    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA

    Posts: 779
    I'm Timothy.

    Smile

    Let's just put a few more legs on it and call it a day!
    Holbo TT-Nag 110-Croft phono/Innuos Zen MK2/LinnenberG Telemann DAC-Preamp/LinnenberG Allegro monoblocs/Duevel Venus/LinnenberG Maestro SE-Senn. 660S DH Labs cabling

    Croft Series 7 amps, WLM La Scala, Naim Uniti1, Naim Nait XS3, Naim ND5XS2, Guru Junior

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