Nice forum

[Yomanze]

Was great reading through Richard's rant thread, so thought I'd join. Nice to see some familar faces here too Presently listening to The Cure - Disintegration on:

Exposure 2010S w/ MC Card
Technics SL-1210 Mk.2 / SRM/TECH acrylic mat / Sumiko Headshell / Denon DL103
Amphion Argon2

Having just gotten into vinyl, it's like rediscovering music again. Was a bit worried I'd have to shell out on a phono stage, but the amp's surprised me & doesn't have a problem with the DL103. Sounds lovely too, my trusty modded Marantz CD65DX & Rotel 965BX (and Sony PlayStation) are gathering dust!

Look forward to the discussion & a hello to everyone.

[Marco]

Hi Yomanze,

Welcome to the forum

You're obviously a man of taste owning an SL-1210 and a DL-103

I look forward to having a few good chats with you on the subject!

You post on Wigwam normally, don't you?

Regards,
Marco.

[Yomanze]

Indeed I do normally post on Wigwam, noticed you've got a KAB Technics, v.nice

With the DL103, do you think step-up into MM is the way to go? Or can you get as good results with active MC? Bit torn over which route to take. I've been looking at this (Hiraga 'pre pre' amp):

http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/prepre.htm

Which gives me a lot more flexibility (ie could use a tube phono stage)...

[Marco]

Yomanze,

I've got no experience of the Hiraga, so unfortunately I can't comment.

Regarding active MC vs. step-up transformer & MM stage, it's one that divides opinion somewhat!

There are undoubtedly some excellent active MC stages around at the moment, and if it wasn't a 103 you were using I would happily recommend some. However, in my experience, and it is considerable now, as I've been using the 103 successfully in various forms since 1982, a properly matched step-up transformer into an all-valve MM stage is the way to go.

However, there are only four step-up transformers I would recommend for the 103 which get the impedance, loading and gain spot on and those are Denon's own AU-300LC and AU-S1 shown here:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/advanced_...1d1d7&x=10&y=9

The Highphonic HP-T5S (ideal with the 103 Pro):

http://www.swingaudio.com/WWShipping.htm

And what I'm currently using, which IMO is the best of them all. The Auditorium 23 from Tone Imports in Germany. This transforms the 103 into something very special indeed:

http://www.toneimports.com/auditorium23/a23stepup.html

If you read the Six Moons review and check out the German manufacturer's website you'll see the lengths in which he's gone to find the most ideally matched transformer for the 103. I've used the A23 for some months now and it transforms the 103 (R, Pro or standard) into a cartridge that competes with the best at any price, providing you're not an absolute detail freak, or someone who likes MC cartridges which make vinyl sound like CD!

With the 103 you need a transformer that provides absolutely the correct impedance, loading and gain in order to hear what it's truly capable of, and then use it into a high quality MM stage, preferably an all-valve one. Active MC stages which are designed for universal cartridge use or which do not successfully optimise the 103s electrical characteristics as described quite simply will not release its true potential.

It may be a 'cheap' (in terms of cost) cartridge, but it takes lots of attention to detail to hear it as Denon intended! And the rewards are considerable

Marco.

[Yomanze]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Marco, looks like a good first bet would be the Denon step-up. I have heard that the DL103 is a bit of a fussy bugger to setup, but I'm happily in la la land enjoying the sound nonetheless. Methinks the Technics arm mates well with it.

It's undeniable that the MC card will be the weakest link in my system, but am definitely going to be happy for the next few months whilst I buy vinyl instead!

[Marco]

I'm sure you will Yomanze, and you're right the Technics arm does mate well with it. I'm off to bed in a moment but I'll give you some tips tomorrow on how to get the most from the 103 on the SL-1210

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Marco, looks like a good first bet would be the Denon step-up. I have heard that the DL103 is a bit of a fussy bugger to setup, but I'm happily in la la land enjoying the sound nonetheless. Methinks the Technics arm mates well with it.

It's undeniable that the MC card will be the weakest link in my system, but am definitely going to be happy for the next few months whilst I buy vinyl instead!

Problem is there are many so-so active mc stages, get a good one and it will out perform all but the most expensive transformers, and I mean expensive like well over £1000.

Active phono stage design is quite simple once you understand the basics. Masses of headroom is required, as there is no real voltage to current trade off available. PSU is critical as rock solid regulation is essential.

[Marco]

Meanwhile, here's some interesting info on the Auditorium 23 from the designer Keith Aschenbrenner:

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews...um23/23_3.html

We've exchanged a few emails and I intend to pay him a visit in Germany when I'm over there later in the year visiting my wife's relatives in Cologne.

I would love to hear his set-up as it looks right up my street!

He also seems to share the same values as me regarding how recorded music should sound

Marco.

[Marco]

Problem is there are many so-so active mc stages, get a good one and it will out perform all but the most expensive transformers, and I mean expensive like well over £1000.

You don't necessarily have to spend over £1000 to get a good one though, Richard. The A23 cost me £350, and together with the valve MM stage in the Croft it produces a sound with the 103 that exceeds anything I've heard from any other MC cartridge through very expensive active MC stages.

Like anything else in hi-fi it's all to do with synergy and how you apply the use of components in a particular design, not necessarily how much they cost, which determine the quality of the results obtained

With a 103 cartridge I simply would not use anything else but a properly matched step-up transformer, and the A23 is the best I've heard, so far.

Marco.