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Thread: Centre speaker - or lack of!!

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Shropshire

    Posts: 1,696
    I'm Anto.

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    Cheeky !!!!
    I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2014

    Location: County Durham, England

    Posts: 534
    I'm Malcolm.

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    Interesting thread...

    I'm a big believer in centre speakers - mostly for when you want to sit at one end of the sofa and not the 'sweet spot'. A good one will add focus and solidity to the soundstage. I'm also a believer in setting the centre as 'small' even if it's quite capable in the bass department. The centre channel is the busiest channel in your average movie soundtrack. Hiving the bass off to the mains and/or sub leaves the centre (even a big one) and its power amp with more 'headroom' for want of a better term to handle the complexity of the signal.

    My two cents anyway. I think the only exception is if you're running something really epic as your main stereo pair (801, DSP8000, other behemoths) where a centre may just sully the system and sound weedy by comparison.

    Technics SL1210 MkII / SME 309 / Timestep PSU / Achromat / Denon DL-304
    Trichord Dino Mk2
    Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 / iPad Air / Mac Mini (Lossless, MP3, Spotify)
    Pioneer BDP-450 Blu-ray/DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD transport
    Toshiba BDX1200 Blu-ray player (Zone A & Region 1)
    Yamaha RX-V1067
    B&W 804S stereo, HTM4S centre, CDMSNT surrounds (5.0)
    Sennheiser HD 700 headphones
    Panasonic PT-AT6000 projector

  3. #13
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Coventry

    Posts: 2,932
    I'm Will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    You can program the receiver to send the centre output to the front left and right. Just de-select the centre speaker in the menu and it will happen automatically.

    That's what I do and I prefer it to having a centre speaker.
    I've gone one further and removed the sub, so 4.0 really...

    My main speakers (IPL S5TLs) go down to 23Hz, so I don't need any additional out of phase boom!

    Removing the AV powered center, and pushing all 3 main channels through my stereo rig is a massive improvement, particularly with music videos...

    All my AV processor does is drive my rear L & R rear surrounds, a set of old '91 Bose (OK I've admitted it ) AM5s, which are actually excellent for the rear surround job...honest!
    Cheers, Will

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Shropshire

    Posts: 1,696
    I'm Anto.

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    My sub sits next to the hi fi ,and the TV and AV receiver ,on the other side .
    I simply unplug the phono leads from one to the other ,depending on which I am using ,but its like spaghetti junction behind there !!
    4 sets of speakers and a sub
    I am sure if it was the living room ,I would have been evicted by now!!!
    Also ,my sons room is above , so I have to exercise caution apparently
    Fortunately the room is 20 x 40 ft , but seems to be filling up with hi fi boxes and second rate equipment
    I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work

  5. #15
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,152
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddball View Post
    Fortunately the room is 20 x 40 ft , but seems to be filling up with hi fi boxes and second rate equipment
    20 x 40! You need some monster JBLs in your life. Sell the cows, man!
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,748
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WAD62 View Post
    My main speakers (IPL S5TLs) go down to 23Hz, so I don't need any additional out of phase boom!
    Lol... Not so, if you get it right!

    'Taint no boom here... The little Yamaha sub seems to work seamlessly with the 15XRs, their ABRs combining superbly well with it and creating very impressive 'slam' with movie explosions and gunshots!

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Coventry

    Posts: 2,932
    I'm Will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Lol... Not so, if you get it right!

    'Taint no boom here... The little Yamaha sub seems to work seamlessly with the 15XRs, their ABRs combining superbly well with it and creating very impressive 'slam' with movie explosions and gunshots!

    Marco.
    I get plenty enough slam from the IPL's mate!

    And the rears have their own sub too (2.1), under the couch, so more than enough bass all round, as full frequency range is sent to all 4 speakers

    Before the IPLs I used an old Yamaha sub in conjunction with my Mission 753s, they needed it...however with the IPLs in place the sub is rendered pointless IMHO
    Cheers, Will

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,748
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Absolutely, and that's cool. I was just saying that the addition of a sub doesn't have to result in "out of phase boom"

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 26,996
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Absolutely, and that's cool. I was just saying that the addition of a sub doesn't have to result in "out of phase boom"

    Marco.
    Certainly not.

    As long as the sub is connected 'in phase' with the main speakers, the phase should be perfect. Also, the wavelength of low frequencies is so large that having the sub some distance away from the main speakers makes little difference.

    That said. I've tried subs on occasion and did not get on with them.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,748
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Me neither, Geoff, as far as in 2-channel mode is concerned, but in the home-cinema system the Yamaha underpins and add gravitas very impressively to low frequencies. As such, I wouldn't be without it

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

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