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Thread: Thorens TD160 Super modifications

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Nothamptonshire

    Posts: 158
    I'm Sharif.

    Default Thorens TD160 Super modifications

    I've always like the looks of the TD160 Super but not quite it's sound.

    In isolation it sounds quite reasonable but Iíve always found it lacked fine detail and record surface noise to be on the high side.

    The first TD160 Super I originally owned was in 1980 and was fitted with a Rega RB200 arm and Goldring G900igc it was eventually traded it in for a LP12.

    About three years ago I came across a NOS one and bought it for £30 it came with ADC tonearm and VMS 20 mk11 cartridge.

    I wanted to modify it and Iíve been playing around with stiffening the bearing house to see if the surface noise could be reduced.
    My first attempt was a simple wooden collar with steel plates this may a big difference with a reduction in surface noise and restoring some of the missing fine detail.






    This was my second solution to stiffen the bearing housing a tight fitting machine collar.





    Surface noise was again reduced over the simple wood and metal modification, transient detail seems to be clearer and more fine detail restored.


    More mods to follow to the sub chassis and suspension.

    Sharif.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 7,181
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Ah happy memories I remember modding on of these, you've gone further than I did I will be watching your thread with interest.
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analog Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 Mat Teunto Bearing 401 Plinth Moldovan Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSU No9 MCAg Meister SPU CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerVdH 6mm Blue IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise/EAR 3009 Clone (Telefunken)


  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,414
    I'm David.

    Default

    The KJ mod, researched by Robin Marshall no less, was to use a long block of wood, tightly snug, plus glued and bolted to the main bearing and adjacent sub chassis as you've done and acting as the arm board mount at the other end, this mount being another wooden piece of the same material coming up through the top plate. A crude belt-n-braces version of what Rega do today with better looking materials. It worked rather well, but of course any used residuals would be reduced because the deck isn't stock. I don't think all that many were done, maybe a couple of dozen or so. I believe Martin Colloms did similar with the LP12 pre Cirkus update, using Perspex around the LP12 bearing and clamping the whole thing up tightly, as you've done.

    The 160 Super WAS better, the heavy duty plinth and mat improving matters I think. The main bearing on all 160's by this time was better tolerance than on mk1 versions I thought. I must do something with my 160mk2, which is in bits in the loft, either sell it or build it up.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Nothamptonshire

    Posts: 158
    I'm Sharif.

    Default Thorens TD160 Super modifications (Part 2)

    Following on from the above modification the next step was to improve the placement and focus of the music.

    I didn’t want to over damping and kill the sound, so I tried adding a plywood inlay to the sub chassis but this did over dampened the sound.


    Back to the drawing board or in my case (AutoCAD Inventor) I came up with this solution.



    Using a non-scientific knuckle knock test and listening to the note produced without this mod the note had a longer sustain like a metallic ring.

    After resetting the deck there was clearly some big improvement to the sound but one area that was missing was the bass, it had gained detail but lost the weight and slam.

    I try setting up the suspension several times but each time I had the same results.

    The next thing I tried was a set of LP12 springs that didn’t work as the suspension mounting stub were too short.

    So a bit of drastic action was required to the TD160 top plate and remove the rear countersunk screw that’s hidden.




    By using a 10mm wood bit drill I was able cut a hole and remove the screw.




    New LP12 springs and high tensile screws.




    After adding the LP12 spring and rubber mounts the bass was partially restored.

    Final mechanical modification to follow.

    Sharif.
    Last edited by Audioflyer; 03-11-2016 at 10:55.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Nothamptonshire

    Posts: 158
    I'm Sharif.

    Default Thorens TD160 Super modifications (Part 3)

    This bring me to the final part of the TD160 mechanical changes.

    After fitting the LP12 springs and achieving a good bounce the sound was still lacking bass weight what was there was very good.

    A bit more experimenting with the LP12 spring and I found they had an optimum point were the whole sound just fell in place.

    So this is the solution I came up with by adding a mass ring around the main bearing this has allow me to tune the suspension for the sound I was looking for.

    Compared to the original Thorens springs and the un-optimized LP12 spring adding the mass around the bearing reduced the torsion rotation.







    Final set-up of the underside.




    I was taken aback by the effects this had on bass guitar and drumming detail and it wasn't just about bass
    every aspect timing, pitch and dynamics had been transformed, it was like a veil had been removed from the sound "I like what I'm hearing".

    This was the TD160 Super that I brought along to the MiBO 2016.

    There will be a part 4 & 5 but for now I'm just going to enjoy the sound that it making.

    Sharif.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Feb 2018

    Location: Belfast, United Kingdom

    Posts: 32
    I'm Artur.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Audioflyer View Post
    This bring me to the final part of the TD160 mechanical changes.

    After fitting the LP12 springs and achieving a good bounce the sound was still lacking bass weight what was there was very good.

    A bit more experimenting with the LP12 spring and I found they had an optimum point were the whole sound just fell in place.

    So this is the solution I came up with by adding a mass ring around the main bearing this has allow me to tune the suspension for the sound I was looking for.

    Compared to the original Thorens springs and the un-optimized LP12 spring adding the mass around the bearing reduced the torsion rotation.







    Final set-up of the underside.




    I was taken aback by the effects this had on bass guitar and drumming detail and it wasn't just about bass
    every aspect timing, pitch and dynamics had been transformed, it was like a veil had been removed from the sound "I like what I'm hearing".

    This was the TD160 Super that I brought along to the MiBO 2016.

    There will be a part 4 & 5 but for now I'm just going to enjoy the sound that it making.

    Sharif.
    Hello, I am Artur, I would like to ask if your turntable is dampened with factory foam or is it a felt mat? I am a holder of thorens 160 mk 2 and I would like to dampen the chassis of the turntable, I thought about the self-adhesive felt mat, but I'm not sure it will be enough?
    Artur

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 44,802
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    i used cork on mine but many use dynamat.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D DARBEE - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/EMOTIVA XPS1/12V BATTERY - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP\WE TUBED - TWIN AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTHS - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER24, SPOTIFY - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - RPI/AUDIOPHONICS/5V BATTERY - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN/Q ACOUSTIC BT3/CANTON SUB - P.INSPIRED MAINS REGENERATED.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2018

    Location: Belfast, United Kingdom

    Posts: 32
    I'm Artur.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    i used cork on mine but many use dynamat.
    Where can I buy dynamat?

  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 44,802
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    You will get it on eBay. Try the car stuff. It's same stuff but cheaper. Will look for a link
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D DARBEE - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/EMOTIVA XPS1/12V BATTERY - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP\WE TUBED - TWIN AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTHS - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER24, SPOTIFY - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - RPI/AUDIOPHONICS/5V BATTERY - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN/Q ACOUSTIC BT3/CANTON SUB - P.INSPIRED MAINS REGENERATED.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 44,802
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D DARBEE - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/EMOTIVA XPS1/12V BATTERY - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP\WE TUBED - TWIN AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTHS - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER24, SPOTIFY - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - RPI/AUDIOPHONICS/5V BATTERY - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN/Q ACOUSTIC BT3/CANTON SUB - P.INSPIRED MAINS REGENERATED.

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