Where to start with RTR

[Woodhead]

Having returned to vinyl this year I've been mostly on Techiepedia, so I guess you might not know me here. Hello from Nottingham.

I've been enjoying making compilation cassettes of favourite LP tracks, sequenced in DAW, output through Presonus Central Station.
I'm interested in better sound quality than my Denon720R compact cassette, so I've begun considering RTR.

Would I be better looking for a two track model, or is four track good enough for what I'm doing?
Is 7.5ips an appropriate speed, or would I gain anything from 15ips?
Which machines are proven to be reliable, with servicing and spares available in UK. Around the £400-500 kind of level?

Thanks for looking at my newbie level questions, we all have to start somewhere!

[337alant]

Hi and welcome to R2R
If you want better sound quality then R2Rs will generally sound better than Cassette but there are some very good cassette decke out there that will give the best of the R2Rs a run for there money, personally I prefer the 2 track machines as they have a greater dynamic range and no bleed through from narrow tracks.
There are no relaiable R2Rs these days as they are all getting very old, so dodgy old capacitors are the biggest cause of failure.
Some of the last machines made were the Tascam BR20 and i can thoughly recommend them as very good performer and as reliable as you can get nowerdays, I have 6 of these machines, the Tascam ATR professional machines are also excellent but quite rare in the UK now. Tascam was the professional version of TEAC who also made some very good machines for the domestic market the latter ones of those were the X1000 & X2000, I have a Teac 3440 and an X1000 and they are both good machines.
Revox made some wonderful machines and the latter versions were the semi pro PR99 Mk1, 2 & 3 and they are the ones I would look for if you want a revox, but if you chose revox be prepared to have to completely recap them as the frako caps in particular have a habbit of failing short circuit I have a Pr99 mk1 & 2 but both need work on recapping.
Studer were the Professional range of the Revox machines and these are superb performers if in good condition and also share the same capacitor problem, I have a Studer A810 which is my pride and joy
Otari made some very nice R2Rs and in europe the MX55 was an excellent performer and very good build quilaity, I have 2 of these machines and have never had to replace a cap yet, in USA the MX5050 versions are very highly regarded
Akai made some fine sounding machines and the top of the range GX646 & 747 are very nice but expensive, Some Akai machines also have a problem with failing transisters which are now obselete although allternatives are available.
Sony also made some great machines but I have never owned one so cant offer an opinion on reliability?
Tandberg made some superb machines 30 years ago but good ones are quite rare now, Ali Tate has a very nice example
7.5" is very good and makes the best use of the tape 90mins on a 10.5", 15" sounds tighter and cleaner but eats tape up the same tape in 45mins
Oh and then you have to find some decent tape that will not have sticky shed
The maxell UD & XL range are very good and still available are the Pyral LPR35, SM900 & 911 and ATR tapes but at a cost
Hope this helps

[Lodgesound]

The Otari MX and MTR series of machines are fantastically reliable - I have never known one to develop any kind of serious fault in all the years I have run them. That said you won't get an MTR in good condition for under £1600 - £2000 at the moment as such machines are beginning to have commercial value again. The same can be said of the high end Studer machines but again they are very expensive in fully serviceable form. £400 - £500 could buy you a good MX 55 Otari or something such as a Teac X1000 R (many of these are quarter track so get the half track one as Alan has already said due to bleed through problems and very poor signal to noise ratios with quarter track units).

Your budget could also buy you a good A77 Revox or even a B77 (these are markedly better units). These have some capacitor issues but only with the FRAKO capacitors really - in my experience the bulk of the electronics in these machines remain stable after all these years.

[Woodhead]

Thank you very much Alan and Stewart.
This gives me a very useful launching off point to begin my search.
I appreciate the time you've taken, and the insider knowledge you've shared with a newbie.
Excellent stuff.

[Firebottle]

Excellent posts fellas

[topoxforddoc]

If you want to play old pre-recorded tapes, then get a 4 track machine. Personally I wouldn't bother, as the commercial 4 track tapes were all duplicated at high speed. Also SQ on 4 track 1/4 inch isn't as good as 2 track.

If it were my choice, I would only buy a machine, which can do 15 IPS as well as 7.5 IPS. Once you get the bug, you might get tempted into the realms of 15 IPS 2 track masters (or similar). Ouch, they're expensive, but once you've heard them, you will find them irresistible. It's addictive.

If you can go to about £600, you might find a Sony APR-5000 series machine. These are proper studio workhorses and every bit as good as a serious Studer like an A80. They just aren't as valued as Studers or Otaris, even though the Sony tape transport is one of the best around. Whatever you buy, budget for a service and tape alignment to get it working perfectly. Good luck!

[Woodhead]

Thanks Charlie, that's very helpful and has refined my consideration.
I've got the MFSL 45rpm KOB box, which would be interesting to hear at 15ips as one continuous flow, rather than getting up to turn the disc over every few minutes.

How much roughly should I expect to pay for a service/alignment?
Obviously depends on the state of the unit, but presuming it's not a basket case and just needs a little fettling what would be realistic ballpark fees.

I have found a fully refurbished high speed 2 track B77, with test report and warranty. But he's asking £825 for it, so I think that's probably overpriced.

Form factor will keep me away from the bigger studio style units. I only have room for something upright.

[topoxforddoc]

Form factor will keep me away from the bigger studio style units. I only have room for something upright.

The pro studio machines are much better built with robust transport systems and electronics on removable cards (easier to service). My Sony APR5003 does have a slightly bigger footprint. But I have mine on top of an Ikea Lack trolley, so it's not that big. The Studer A80s, Otari MTRs (with integrated trolley and bridge) and ATRs are much bigger and more expensive. Have a look at this video from this year's AXPONA show in the US (OK it's about 50 mins, but well worth watching)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StL9...ature=youtu.be

[337alant]

For me the ancient pre recorded tapes are very poor quality and value considering there cost on ebay so I just don’t bother.

If you want to hear what your R2R can do as a source then I prefer to make up play lists from my flac files and recording them directly from my DAC to tape machine, or alternatively recording straight from my Turntable via the paradise phono stage, I get some really nice recording this way

Alan

[337alant]

For me the ancient pre recorded tapes are very poor quality and value considering there cost on ebay so I just don’t bother.

If you want to hear what your R2R can do as a source then I prefer to make up play lists from my flac files and recording them directly from my DAC to tape machine, or alternatively recording straight from my Turntable via the paradise phono stage, I get some really nice recording this way

Alan