Jelco SA-750D - Optimum Setup

[Ammonite Audio]

I'm pleased to say that my Jelco SA-750D is now working pretty well on the Technics, with either Ortofon Kontrapunkt B or 2M Black cartridges. Not as well, to my tastes, as the Tecnoarm, but way better than when I first tried it, when I disliked it quite intensively. I'm not sure what's changed in the intervening period. My ears, probably!

Could the Jelco users out there share their setup tips? I'm wondering particularly about the tightness of the various bolts etc; also use of damping fluid. Is it worth securing the (Neglex) arm cable to the base of the deck with a p-clip?

Incidentally, I have found using one of Audio Origami's headshell spirit levels ( http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/F_Sale/ForSale.htm ) to be invaluable in setting this arm up. Bang on level seems to suit the Ortofons; and it's so easy to set VTA and headshell azimuth accurately with Johnny's medium size level. The small one is rather trickier to use, but neither weighs enough to add any appreciable weight to the headshell. Johnny included some of his bearing oil with my last purchase, which I shall try out on my old Kenwood, and maybe the Technics too.

Another aside - I have a Pete Riggle VTAF coming from the States (see http://www.vtaf.com/ ) , which will be used on the Kenwood with the Tecnoarm. Wait out for impressions!

[DSJR]

Marco will have to comment along with Dave Cawley, but I'm wondering if the Linn method of severely tightening all the fixings together is the right way to go with a Jelco on a Techie - firmly rather than excrutiatingly tight... Careful adjustment of damping would have a noticable affect I reckon.

[Marco]

Hi Shuggie,

The fact is the Tecnoarm might suit the Kontrapunkt B or 2M Black better than the Jelco. It's all about synergy, remember?

I'm afraid that until we're 'singing from the same hymn sheet', as it were, and thus you're using a DL-103SA and a Time Step PSU (on your Techie), with the Jelco, it's impossible for me to relate to what you're hearing, and so I can't really offer much useful advice... I'm glad that the Jelco seems to have improved, though!

However, my view on P-clips is that they'd make bugger all difference to the Techie. It's the LP12's bouncy suspension which makes the P-clip thing significant, as is the case with regard to the tightness of bolts, etc, unless Dave has anything different to add in that respect.

No offence, but it's leaving behind that sort of obsessive set-up tweakery which is one of the benefits of owning a good direct-drive turntable. Once it's set-up, one forgets all about that stuff and just gets on with spinning records!

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

It is possible that the Tecnoarm thrives more with the Ortofons, but that's not what I was asking. Nor was I talking about obsessive tweakery.

I have a feeling that the tightness of the pillar grub screw is quite critical, and I hoped that you would have something constructive to say on that point. I am sure Dave will.

As for DD decks being free of the need for tweakery, are you saying that they are free from the requirement for careful setup?

[DSJR]

'Course they have to be set up properly, especially in terms of careful isolation - or Isonoe style feet - but as Marco says, the obsession in LP12 setup shouldn't ever arise.

Surely the pillar nuts should be firmly tight - enough to lock it in place - not to bearing crushing tightness as we did in our ignorance of materials technology back then..

[Marco]

Hi Shuggs,

It is possible that the Tecnoarm thrives more with the Ortofons, but that's not what I was asking. Nor was I talking about obsessive tweakery.

There's no need to go on the defensive and get snotty - I was only offering my opinion. The fact that the Jelco is not working as well to your tastes as the Tecnoarm but 'way better than when you first tried it, when you disliked it quite intensively', could be due to a lack of synergy with your cartridge choice. That's all I meant.

Tonearms do not perform optimally with every cartridge. I suspect that the Jelco 750 is most at home with low-compliance MCs, such as the DL-103, SPU, or Deccas; none of which you currently own. I've also heard it perform very well with an OC-9.

I have a feeling that the tightness of the pillar grub screw is quite critical, and I hoped that you would have something constructive to say on that point. I am sure Dave will.

What I said was intended to be constructive, but perhaps it's not what you wanted to hear? Dave fitted my tonearm, and it's performed superbly from day one on my deck, so I've had no reason to fiddle with it. The pillar grub screw though, IMO, is best not over-tightened as this can sometimes make the sound a little 'etched' and hard.

As for DD decks being free of the need for tweakery, are you saying that they are free from the requirement for careful setup?

Nope; merely what's Dave (DSJR) has said above, and what I alluded to earlier:

but as Marco says, the obsession in LP12 setup shouldn't ever arise.

We're all trying to help here, you know, but the unfortunate fact is if we haven't experienced the problems you're encountering, then it's difficult to advise on what to do about them

Marco.

[Beobloke]

The problem here may be that the Tecnoarm has quite a different sonic character to the Jelco, with the latter being a great deal smoother. I have also found that the Tecnoarm is very sensitive to the cartridges that are used with it - for example, a 2M Black sounded superb in it, but a Rondo Bronze sounded truly dreadful!

I have not tried a Kontrapunkt in the Jelco, although I do have one now, so this is probably a worthwhile task for a future fiddling session, but I found the 2M black to work well in it.

As to the tightness of the bolts, simply do them up firmly - there's no need to attempt to strip the thread but equally I am not a fan of the 'leave everything loose' method espoused by the likes of Origin Live. A sensible compromise between the two is required.

Your comment regarding the Ortofons being best set up perfectly level is interesting. When Noel Keywood was testing the Dr. Feickert Adjust + cartridge setup software whilst I was at Hi-Fi World full time, he and I spent about a month or so putting every cartridge we could get our hands on through it! The only manufacturer that showed consistently good results for correct SRA and correctly aligned coils were Ortofon. I'll always remember one cartridge (in the +£1500 price bracket!) that needed nearly 3 degrees of headshell rotation in order to give equal distortion figures on each channel!

[Marco]

Hi Adam,

The problem here may be that the Tecnoarm has quite a different sonic character to the Jelco, with the latter being a great deal smoother.

I completely agree. Shuggs obviously likes the Tecnoarm, but it's not my cup of tea.

I honestly feel that for him to ever really resolve his issues with the Jelco (bearing in mind that this has been an on-going saga for some time), he's either going to have to swap the arm for something which better suits his Kontrapunkt B, or obtain a cartridge which better suits the Jelco.

Otherwise, I feel that sadly Shuggs will just continue going round in circles...

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

Enough!

Did I say that there was a problem? No! I said that there was a difference, with the Tecnoarm being more to my tastes. My preference is exactly that - nothing absolute, nor something that someone else would find to their tastes. I repeat - both arms are performing well, with the same cartridges, with one being on balance more to my tastes.

Marco - I was not getting snotty, but here goes, I am now. The subtext of your replies appears to be "you must have exactly what I have - everything else is wrong - you are wrong". That is not helpful and does not answer what I thought was a simple question about setup. At least you did offer this:

The pillar grub screw though, IMO, is best not over-tightened as this can sometimes make the sound a little 'etched' and hard.

As to the tightness of the bolts, simply do them up firmly - there's no need to attempt to strip the thread but equally I am not a fan of the 'leave everything loose' method espoused by the likes of Origin Live. A sensible compromise between the two is required.

Thank you both - that's what my experience tells me so far, but if anyone else can chip in and provide some further wisdom, I'd be very grateful.

We're all trying to help here, you know, but the unfortunate fact is if we haven't experienced the problems you're encountering, then it's difficult to advise on what to do about them

I repeat - there is no problem. Any two bits of equipment will show differences, and these tonearms are no exception.

[Marco]

Marco - I was not getting snotty, but here goes, I am now. The subtext of your replies appears to be "you must have exactly what I have - everything else is wrong - you are wrong". That is not helpful and does not answer what I thought was a simple question about setup.

Sorry, that's complete nonsense, Shuggie, and not my intention at all.

What I'm getting at here is this:

I'm pleased to say that my Jelco SA-750D is now working pretty well on the Technics, with either Ortofon Kontrapunkt B or 2M Black cartridges. Not as well, to my tastes, as the Tecnoarm, but way better than when I first tried it, when I disliked it quite intensively. I'm not sure what's changed in the intervening period. My ears, probably!

You stated that you've done nothing to the arm which could account for its significant change in presentation, and yet it's now, to quote you: "working pretty well on the Technics". As I'm sure you'll agree, that's quite a major departure from originally disliking it "quite intensively", yes?

Therefore, as there is nothing to "intensively dislike" ("intensively" being the key word here) about the Jelco (it's basically a very smooth, refined performer when optimally set-up and partnered), whatever mismatch/set-up problem, or I don't know what, that originally caused you to "intensively dislike" it, was either imagined or still exists, because as you state, nothing in terms of set-up has changed since then, yet it is now "working pretty well on the Technics".

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

I'm simply speculating as to what might be going on, and trying to offer a solution, which you're interpreting in completely the wrong way, as shown by the language used which I've highlighted above in the first quote.

If you don't understand where I'm coming from, and are going to take things the wrong way, then it's best that I leave you to it in order to prevent any further misunderstanding or ill-feeling.

Marco.