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Thread: LENCO - GL75 Project

  1. #391
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I am sure you are correct regarding stability of speed with belt driven turntables however heavy platters do certainly help with controlling vibration.
    Evidence for that?

    No vibration issue on my TD124 or on my Garrard previously. Or indeed on my GL75 with one platter.

  2. #392
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Evidence for that?

    No vibration issue on my TD124 or on my Garrard previously. Or indeed on my GL75 with one platter.
    You must have your turntables very well isolated then.

    Increased mass does tend to reduce HF resonance depending on platter material used, VPI moved back from acrylic to steel probably because it helped with HF resonance ( It had a different sound).
    Heavy platters also have a damping effect which helps reduce motor/bearing and airborne vibrations affecting the cartridge.

    Higher mass also, as you mentioned stabilises speed but also stops stylus drag. My high mass platter results in a very quiet black background due to its mass which is much more evident than my idler.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #393
    montesquieu Guest

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    I have lots of mass IN THE PLINTH. (With the TD124 and two arms it's over 30kg). Which is the correct place to have it.

    Where's your evidence for HF resonance from a single Lenco platter vs double? I don't hear any with my Lenco or my Thorens. (Or my Garrard before that). Measurements?

    Why would doubling the mass on a platter affect airborne vibrations?

    Stylus drag is not an issue with idlers. That's the main reason for using them. I accept it is with wobbly belt drive decks but I haven't used one of those for donkeys. High mass is indeed sensible on an NA or other deck of that ilk. On an idler, I really don't see the point.

    I come back to my original question: why on a Lenco and not on Garrard or Thorens?

  4. #394
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    I don't know if the high mass of stacked platters on a Lenco improved sound quality due to inertia or mass I was just trying to suggest possible reasons to Andy why it should sound better.

    What's with the IN THE PLINTH implying. I have high mass in my plinth and platter.

    Evidence for high mass effects comes from listening and other people's experiences.

    I did not say stylus drag was an issue with Lenco's ?
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  5. #395
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Guys, it's only a platter!!!! It's only my opinion that things sound better, that's not to say I could be barking up the wrong tree, but I do wonder why Ken Shindo decided to go down the route of increasing platter diameter and mass on the Shindo 301? Perhaps it's because it simply sounded better to him. I don't think he ever gave reasons why his platter design shoud improve the 301, perhaps it was just marketing ( ). There is more to a deck than discussing the platter and I think the aesthetics of the deck should also be carefully considered. Part of MY listening experience is knowing that I've stripped down and worked on the particular deck, experienced the rebuild, the steady improvements over the months and then the ultimate joy is finishing it and then having it my collection for decades to come. This Lenco will be such a piece. If I'm to look at something for decades it has to be a design that I find pleasing to eye and something that works me asethetically and this Lenco ticks those boxes. I don't really care if the second platter add to improvements over the sonics, I think it does, but to my eyes it just looks better. Some would disagree and that's fine but it would be a boring world if we all agreed and discussion became stale. Party on lads....
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  6. #396
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Jim,

    MASS is usually added into the design of the plinth. So, some people decide to fill a compartment (usually the base) with all manor of materials. I've seem lead shot, sand, pebbles, even concrete. Thats all very well but the a motor any idler that is attached to the top plate or chasis will still leak vibration into the bearing and thus the platter and that's why Dr. Bastin created a plinth to mount the bearing away from the 301's chasis and PTP designed the PTP top plate for the Lenco to removed the motor from the bearing. I supposed the ultimate would be to decouple motor and bearing and mount into the plinth.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  7. #397
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Regarding Lenco's and Garrards I agree mass is added into the plinth and because of the particular drive of these beasts there is no need for a heavy platter.

    However I was just highlighting the fact with belt driven turntables and mine in particular mass is added to the plinth and the platter. What Tom is trying to say is that Mass is only added to a platter in belters for speed control but in fact the increased mass also helps with vibration issues.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  8. #398
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Near Accrington, Lancs, UK

    Posts: 307
    I'm Ralph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    I supposed the ultimate would be to decouple motor and bearing and mount into the plinth.
    That's how I built my last two Lencos. However the plinth material and construction becomes more critical. Most of the stuff we use for plinth construction is just as good at transmitting vibration from one component to another.

    Edit. I'm thinking energy might be a better word to use than vibration.
    Last edited by CornishPasty; 07-10-2016 at 11:35.
    Ralph.

  9. #399
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    How about decoupling the two platters and trying a magnetic drive as VPI do with the Titan?

    http://vpiindustries.com/blog/?p=938
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  10. #400
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CornishPasty View Post

    Edit. I'm thinking energy might be a better word to use than vibration.
    We could get all science on your ass! We all understand what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    How about decoupling the two platters and trying a magnetic drive as VPI do with the Titan?

    http://vpiindustries.com/blog/?p=938
    WTF
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



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