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Thread: LENCO - GL75 Project

  1. #941
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

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    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    1 word......paragraph
    yep, not the best! I just wrote the whole thing in one go, it is what it is .
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  2. #942
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Near Accrington, Lancs, UK

    Posts: 307
    I'm Ralph.

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    Cheers Andy, I'm self taught on the lathe and still have a great deal to learn. I do it for pleasure and the reward comes when I get a result. I often have to make a piece two or three times before I'm happy.

    On the subject of decoupling the Lenco motor I've given up trying and just use the standard springs. I tune the motor for the quietest noise by careful rebuilding etc but unfortunately the motor is still coupled to the platter by a hard rubber wheel. One step I might try sometime is to magnetically reduce the pressure on the bearing thrust pad which should lower the inherent noise level of the turntable. There is a thread on LH about this somewhere and I have the details for the two magnets if you're interested. The idea is not to levitate the platter but simply reduce the weight sitting on the bearing thrust pad. Someone here has a Platine Verdiere if I'm not mistaken so will be well aware of the benefits and someone else is marketing such a device for the Linn Sondek.
    Ralph.

  3. #943
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CornishPasty View Post
    Cheers Andy, I'm self taught on the lathe and still have a great deal to learn. I do it for pleasure and the reward comes when I get a result. I often have to make a piece two or three times before I'm happy.

    On the subject of decoupling the Lenco motor I've given up trying and just use the standard springs. I tune the motor for the quietest noise by careful rebuilding etc but unfortunately the motor is still coupled to the platter by a hard rubber wheel. One step I might try sometime is to magnetically reduce the pressure on the bearing thrust pad which should lower the inherent noise level of the turntable. There is a thread on LH about this somewhere and I have the details for the two magnets if you're interested. The idea is not to levitate the platter but simply reduce the weight sitting on the bearing thrust pad. Someone here has a Platine Verdiere if I'm not mistaken so will be well aware of the benefits and someone else is marketing such a device for the Linn Sondek.
    Ive seen the magnet idea implemented but TBH i think I'm happy with what I've got. Although never say never. My next post is going to be about reducing the risks of electromagnetic interference.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  4. #944
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Near Accrington, Lancs, UK

    Posts: 307
    I'm Ralph.

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    EMI, now that sounds like an interesting subject Andy.
    Ralph.

  5. #945
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco PT XXXXXIV - Diamonds are forever.

    I've been quiet recently and for good reason. The Lenco is finished and now shall only be tweaked when the mood takes. I did a little research with regards diamond profile and I have to thank Charlie (topoxfordoc) for the following link. https://www.vinylengine.com/turntabl...ic.php?t=22894 which saved me a hell of a lot of time and effort. I think this link can answer some of the reasons why my original MM cartridge (a Shure M55E with JICO neoSAS stylus) sounded so good. It has a Major Radius (R) or 75um which sits very nicely thanks very much in the groove of vinyl and only the Ortofon Replicant has a larger Major Radius value with 100um but you do pay an extremely large amount of money for this and from a value for money prespective the new JICO neoSAS stylus is a bargain albeit for 25% less width. I then began to think about the alternatives for the Denon 103M which now sits in the Alphason tonearm, so far this cartridge has cost me £180 and it still has a lot of life. The 103M has been compared to carts costing £1K and isn't that far behind them. I'm not sure how much a retip would cost for the 103M, shall we say £400 maximum, that means a total spend of £580. This may be looking at things a little too simplistically but If I could get a decent diamond profile of say 75um I should be in for a very very nice treat and probably have a cartridge which sounds like something in the £1.5K range, especially when running through the Lentek head amp. This may be a worthwhile experiment and it would be interesting to compare this against my Reference cartridges which consist of a Ortofon Silver Meister SPU and a Ortofon Cadenza black. Picking the correct diamond profile is going to be the hardest bit as there are several do you go down the route of Fritz Geiger or maybe van den hul, or maybe something else? Well, thankfully, I don't have to do anything just yet.

    OK, that's me done for tonight. As ever, stay tuned......
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  6. #946
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXV - Tonearm optimisation

    I've been thinking more about the tonearm alignment over the last couple of days and wondered if we could coax any more performance out of the deck by really fine tuning the tonearm and alignment. So the first thing to do was properly level out the platter which I did, see first picture.


    DSCN3030.jpg

    Now to check the alignment of the cartridge. I use the Feckheart system and true to form it revealed Lofgren B alignment for the Alphason tonearm. It's a very slightly customised version but I'm happy that my 103M cartridge is aligned. See photo 2 and 3

    DSCN3031.jpgDSCN3032.jpg

    Tracking weight was important so I decided at 1.4g, ok its 0.1g out but who can really tell the difference at this level?

    DSCN3037.jpg

    Now for something a little geeky. The mass of the Alphason arm is 11g whilst the mass of my Denon 103M is 5.6g, this gave a resonance of 12Hz according to the Vinyl Engine calculator, perhaps a little too high. So, with additional mass of 5g which consists of a couple of spacers, the mounting nuts, screws and finger lift I have managed to increase the cartridge mass to 10.5-11g which now gives a resonance of 10Hz. I'm hoping the Mpingo wood spacer might even knock the resonance level down another Hz!! I would need to add an additional 5g of mass to get into single digit Hz levels. Completely impractical.
    My pivot to spindle mounting distance for the Alphason is 211mm I managed to measure mine at 210mm so I obviously screwed up by 1mm but this does not seem to have affected the Lofgren B alignment. I've managed to get quite far tonight and there are still things to improve. I've noticed that the tonearm is not completely parallel to the vinyl along the shaft of the tonearm there is a 1mm heigh difference from the rear to the front of the tonearm shaft according to my SME mounting template, so that's tomorrow's job. Overhang and Offset distance and angle also appear to be within normal limits. Can I hear a difference? Too early to tell. I'm still pretty miffed the parallel height distance of the tonearm. Come back another day for more thoughts.

    As ever, stay tuned......
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  7. #947
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

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    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXVI - Deja Vu - Visiting an old friend

    Well I've dumped the Denon 103M and head amp and have gone back to an old friend, the Shure M55E, why? Well after shed loads of listening there really isn't that much init, the Denon 103M+Lentek headamp is the better configuration but I've more interconnects than I like and I also have the additional faff of replacing a battery every few weeks with the headamp. The additional bonus of the Shure cartridge is that I have managed to keep the same tonearm and cartridge resonance, all the tonearm tweaking is still in place but I have concrete proof that I have a diamond that tracks with a 75uR diameter in my vinyl grooves. This stops me from having to spend stupid amounts of money on having the Denon 103M modded. The tonearm is still 1mm higher to the back than the front but the Shure cartridge is tracking parallel to the vinyl so I'm happy. This now concludes the tonearm tweaking.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  8. #948
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,853
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Now to check the alignment of the cartridge. I use the Feckheart system and true to form it revealed Lofgren B alignment for the Alphason tonearm. It's a very slightly customised version but I'm happy that my 103M cartridge is aligned. See photo 2 and 3

    DSCN3031.jpgDSCN3032.jpg



    Now for something a little geeky. The mass of the Alphason arm is 11g whilst the mass of my Denon 103M is 5.6g, this gave a resonance of 12Hz according to the Vinyl Engine calculator, perhaps a little too high. So, with additional mass of 5g which consists of a couple of spacers, the mounting nuts, screws and finger lift I have managed to increase the cartridge mass to 10.5-11g which now gives a resonance of 10Hz. I'm hoping the Mpingo wood spacer might even knock the resonance level down another Hz!! I would need to add an additional 5g of mass to get into single digit Hz levels. Completely impractical.


    My pivot to spindle mounting distance for the Alphason is 211mm I managed to measure mine at 210mm so I obviously screwed up by 1mm but this does not seem to have affected the Lofgren B alignment.
    The low frequency resonance will be lower than you calculate. Denon, like a lot of Japanese cartridge manufacturers, quote the dynamic compliance at 100Hz. At around 10Hz it will be 19.5-26 cu, which with the masses you quote, places the LF resonance between 6.7 to 7.8Hz.

    Also, the null radii for the Alphason arm lay at 65.7mm and 120.6mm respectively, which correspond to the Baerwald (also known as Loefgren A) geometry. Your 1mm error in spindle to arm pivot distance ought to lay well within the overhang adjustment range of the arm.
    Barry

  9. #949
    Join Date: Jan 2017

    Location: Bournemouth Dorset england

    Posts: 31
    I'm Steve.

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    I have moded a few lencos and i am writing to tell you..........With the fundamental nature of idlers put into a well made plinth and good arm and cartridge combination the lenco will run rings around a linn when it comes to prat. and for that matter (baring in mind the right arm and cartridge combination ) it does all other things very well indeed.
    A well moded Lenco,301, 401,124 brings the very high end at prices a normal working man can afford.
    Any of the above have huge bass control and huge prat, now combine it with an arm known for its mid and treble purity ( unipivot for me )
    and there you have it. I have no doubt that the same could be Don to make belt and direct drive sing, but for me the idler does have a very
    Strong sense of rightness about it
    Regards steve

  10. #950
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The low frequency resonance will be lower than you calculate. Denon, like a lot of Japanese cartridge manufacturers, quote the dynamic compliance at 100Hz. At around 10Hz it will be 19.5-26 cu, which with the masses you quote, places the LF resonance between 6.7 to 7.8Hz.

    Also, the null radii for the Alphason arm lay at 65.7mm and 120.6mm respectively, which correspond to the Baerwald (also known as Loefgren A) geometry. Your 1mm error in spindle to arm pivot distance ought to lay well within the overhang adjustment range of the arm.
    Why that's even better still, low single digit Hz levels is better than 10Hz! The M55E is now setup for Loefgren and you were correct the 1mm pivot/spindle distance error on my part hasn't really had an impact on cartridge alignment, the little lenco is making VERY nice sounds. I could quite happily live with this deck for life in it's current configuration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Henry Jones View Post
    I have moded a few lencos and i am writing to tell you..........With the fundamental nature of idlers put into a well made plinth and good arm and cartridge combination the lenco will run rings around a linn when it comes to prat. and for that matter (baring in mind the right arm and cartridge combination ) it does all other things very well indeed.
    A well moded Lenco,301, 401,124 brings the very high end at prices a normal working man can afford.
    Any of the above have huge bass control and huge prat, now combine it with an arm known for its mid and treble purity ( unipivot for me )
    and there you have it. I have no doubt that the same could be Don to make belt and direct drive sing, but for me the idler does have a very
    Strong sense of rightness about it
    Regards steve
    The Lenco is very even handed and a very good performer with all genres of music it's perhaps the best all rounder I've owned. My 301 is best for Jazz whilst the technics 1210 is best for forsenic analysis of vinyl. The Lenco just seems to produce effortless reproduction of music irrespective of whats being played.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



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