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Thread: LENCO - GL75 Project

  1. #1081
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Near Accrington, Lancs, UK

    Posts: 307
    I'm Ralph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    The Reference Lenco Pt LXXX - Lazarus!
    The next area of improvement is the slider used in mounting the idler wheel arm. The idler wheel arm is held in place with a two part mount which is very flimsy and also rattles. This is not good and consequently means that there are many surfaces with lots of moving parts all clatter and all this passes up into idler wheel and ultimately into the platter. NOT GOOD! This is a picture (FROM LENCO HEAVEN THANKS CHRIS1967) showing the old slider mount to the left of the picture. As you can see numerous parts. The solution is the large piece of aluminium to the right. I'm actually not happy with this design either as this had loads of nuts and washers which again means loads of surfaces to chatter and transmit vibration into the top plate and platter. My solution is to simply epoxy bond a single piece of aluminium onto the top plate and do away with all the nuts bolts and other components. Bonding the new slider mount needs to be precise due to the fact that its position controls the RPM of the platter. In an ideal world the top plate would have been milled from a solid piece of aluminium incorporating the idler arm mount. This would mean you loose two connecting surfaces merging into one but I suppose bonding with epoxy resin is about as good as I can get.

    Attachment 23187
    Attachment 23188

    I'm not quite sure what to do with the idler wheel arm. I'm looking into ways to sink vibration from the idler wheel arm into the plinth or top plate, but then that's another update. Right you guys I'm signing off. Hope you like the update. As ever, stay tuned...

    Why bother with all that junk and glueing a lump of ally on the top plate etc? A longish bolt through the rod grommet with a penny washer either side of the slot and a locknut underneath the slot will do it. Nip it up just so and you can adjust the speed from underneath before removing the platter and locking it up. It worked ok for me but in the end I couldn't do without the speed change so reverted back to stock mechanism. With careful attention I have ended up with a rattle free mechanism which I'm happy with.
    Ralph.

  2. #1082
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CornishPasty View Post
    Why bother with all that junk and glueing a lump of ally on the top plate etc? A longish bolt through the rod grommet with a penny washer either side of the slot and a locknut underneath the slot will do it. Nip it up just so and you can adjust the speed from underneath before removing the platter and locking it up. It worked ok for me but in the end I couldn't do without the speed change so reverted back to stock mechanism. With careful attention I have ended up with a rattle free mechanism which I'm happy with.
    Yep, your solution is very elegant compared to the one suggested, which is by Jan Nantais who's decks sell for many thousands of Euro's. I like your solution but I dont like the idea of many surfaces chattering together, hence my suggestion of bonding the mount to the top plate. I've found marked sonic improvements with improved coupling of components and these decks seem to get better and better with improved coupling, vibration supression / dissipation. Too much dampening seem to have an impact on attack and muddies the sonic presentation. These are just my observations with my own experiments.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  3. #1083
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXII - It's bloody singing..

    The 75 is now in a position where it's sounding the best that it has EVER sounded. The deck is now partnered with my Fire Bottle modded EAR 834 clone. I have done a little cable swapping and the 834 Clone now runs through my PS Audio P10 power regenerator. The changes to the deck's setup have produced marked improvements. The deck just sounds so clear now, it sounds great with all genre's of music, it has fantastic attack, the bass is great.The deck is virtually silent in operation. I could quite happily live with the deck now as it is, but that's the curse of tweaking you always want to find out what's around the next corner. So, whats next? Well I was thinking on experimenting with the Denon 103M and Lentek head amp going into the EAR834 clone. The 103M needs a rebuild so this is going to happen sometime in Summer. Until then I can only see a minor modification to the idler arm mount and then possibly the start on the new plinth build with the new more heavily modified (and heavier) top plate. Looks like the 75 is going to power on through 2018!

    As ever stay tuned...
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  4. #1084
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXIII - Meet the new boss, same as the old boss (but better).....

    It dosen't look like very much but this is the new reference Lenco. It differs from the current Reference in so many ways. The top plate is about 600g heavier, the old ones was approx 4.4lb this now tops 5lb in weight or about 12% heavier. I've always been a fan of mass! You'll notice the tonearm slot has been filled in and the idler arm mount has been stiffened and minimised. I've filled in a few extra holes that I'd missed on the old reference top plate. As you can see the cosmetic appearance still needs a
    lot of work but it's a work in progress, no rush.


    The new boss.....

    newboss.jpg


    2018 has already produced quite a few improvements for the 75, I've listed what's been achieved so far :-

    BEARING

    * Added increased dampening to the bearing mount and nut/bolt.

    MOTOR

    * Added increased dampening to each motor spring tower.

    TONE ARM

    * Replaced EVA tonearm mount with slightly enlarged circumference birchply replacement.
    * VTA improved.
    * Tonearm mounting stability improved.


    TOP PLATE

    * Added increased dampening to the insertion of each top plate mounting bolt.
    * Optimised and stiffened idler arm slot.
    * Replaced idler arm mount with non-magnetic replacement.
    * Bonded idler arm mount onto top plate for improved coupling.
    * Eliminated several components from the idler arm mount mechanism.
    * Increased mass of top plate to 5lb or 12% heavier.

    I've made a start to try and remove as many magnetic components as possible. This is in a bid to try and stop/reduce and EMI from affecting the deck. I have to admit that it will be extremely difficult to perceive any improvements from this area of modding but as always I firmly believe that results arise when you add all the small tweaks together. There are some very exciting developments going over on Lenco Heaven mainly this thread https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/in...?topic=27929.0 it should help us understand the positive or negative effects of tweaking. Currently, the tonearm board is being assessed and I can't wait for the results. I've experimented with ebony on my 1210 and got excellent results and I also noticed a marked improvement when I switched from EVA to birchply on the 75. OK. I think I've said enough, I'll be looking into the platter next time.

    As always, stay tuned.....
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  5. #1085
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    Good grief , back to scratch again Andy . Ah well , it'll give me something interesting to read

    I have my old GL75 here , which I sold to Tony , for some minor repairs . I must say that it's looking and sounding pretty good . It's fairly stock , the only upgrades being a heavier bearing and a new idler wheel . Sounds excellent though
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  6. #1086
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: Troon

    Posts: 2,476
    I'm tony.

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    Many thanks for fixing mine Brian.

    You were right about letting it run for 20 minutes to stabilise.

    Sounds pretty good to my ears.

  7. #1087
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    Was the original bearing crap then? I have seen a couple with sloppy sleeves (they can be replaced apparently with stock sizes readily available), but the thrust plates and spindle bottoms seem able to take the platter weight ok and the earlier bearings were grease filled in any case..

    Reminds me. After the G99 I had a go at recently, I need to resurrect the GL78 I have here. It's no better than the Duals I have here, but I should get it going for posterity's sake, even if I sell it as I did with a good few others I had through me mitts over the years...
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  8. #1088
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    I'm sure it must occur, but I've never seen a heavy platter Lenco with a worn main bearing and I've owned about a dozen.

    Had one of the lightweight L69's with a knackered (but totally different) bearing.

  9. #1089
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    I had two pass my way when I was in the shop where there was definite platter wobble. I think they were later ones and maybe got-at in the meantime, I don't know. Others I've owned and serviced were fine and a G99 I dealt with recently had superbly tight tolerances as well as healthy grease filling as earlier? ones had from new. I believe this could explain why some samples take ten minutes or so for the speed to stabilise from 'cold' as this G99 did, even with a clean under-platter edge and replacement idler wheel.

    These two iffy ones had the arms stripped off and ended up as platters for speaker drive unit assembly - a centring jig was placed on top of the bare platters, the incomplete drivers placed magnet-down on top and the platter spun gently so the adhesives could be run round evenly. Worked well too

    It wasn't until years later when I read on the Lenco-heaven forum that suitable replacement sleeves were available and with a bolt and suitable washers plus some care and common sense, it was possible to drift the old sleeves out and ease the new ones in safely.
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  10. #1090
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wee tee cee View Post
    Many thanks for fixing mine Brian.

    You were right about letting it run for 20 minutes to stabilise.

    Sounds pretty good to my ears.
    Not a problem mate
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

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