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Thread: LENCO - GL75 Project

  1. #1021
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    did you do the bias line that long for a reason?
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  2. #1022
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    did you do the bias line that long for a reason?
    No I over estimated it's length, it dosent have any impact on the sonics.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  3. #1023
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco pt LXV - Dr. Livinsgstone I presume, or further adventures into Lenco modding.

    So, my Jersey break did me the world of good and I had time to really go over the deck with a fine tooth comb. So some of the areas I "may" experiment with are :-

    1. Re-wiring the motor to 110v and using a step up transformer to see if this improves sonics. The idea is to produce less vibration and thus less entering into the top-plate, bearing, platter and ultimately the cartridge.

    2. Better designed baring brace. This is to try and improve on the coupling of the bearing and the top plate. Again another gambit to combat vibration.

    3. A better plinth design with decoupling of the tonearm and motor. yet again another method of limiting vibration. I should also be able to add more mass into the plinth. I intend to design a tighter fitting plinth and also increase the contact area bewteen the top plate and the plinth.

    4. Newly designed top plate. I should be able to fill in more of the top plate due to some new work I'm doing on the idler arm.

    5. Newly optimised idler arm mount. I'm planning a re-design of the idler arm mount. Should be good fun when I get around to it.

    6. Better cable sheilding. Probably dosent add anything to the decks performance but you never ever can tell!

    7. Experiments into decoupling the motor and reducing db's noise. Another trawl of Lenco Heaven has fetched up some interesting ideas and the technology to measure db levels in the plinth, platter and bearing is now more easily available so we could be messing around with these for some time.


    Still lots to be done and this thread will probably extend into 2018. All these mods will go into Version 3 of my Reference Lenco. These mods are listed in no particular order and will probably be done on a whim depening upon what I feel like doing and finances! I'm in the middle of a Goldring 99 restoration so the poor old '75 has had take a back burner for a we while whilst I finish it off. I also need to spend some time on my Garrard 301, it's not had any serious work done for quite some time and the lessons learned from the 75 will be put to good use but thats another deck and another thread!
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  4. #1024
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    All good stuff again Andy . When I did some work on the GL75 I mistakenly let the motor touch the plinth briefly and was very surprised at the how much the motor vibrated . If I was going down the same road reducing the motor vibration would be my first priority . I've read about reducing the voltage to 110V and it looks very interesting . I will be watching this experiment with interest .
    Unfortunately I don't have the work area , the time , or the skill , to carry out the work which you're planning to do mate . I did replace the phono leads with VDH shielded cable , and the mains cable and it made a difference IMO .
    That's you got three turntables in the workshop now Andy , enjoy yersel
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
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  5. #1025
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVI - 'Avin a look under the 'ud.

    There are plenty of things to keep me busy at the moment when it comes to all things Lenco and the old 75 has had to go on the back burner for a wee while. I've been slowly getting things together so that we can demonstrate some meaningful measurement to our experimentations. I bought a HFN test record (the latest 2017) so I should now be able to measure bearing rumble and hopefully changes to the bearing like oils, greases, bracing etc. I now have a copy of audacity installed on the laptop and a decibel meter. The decibel meter will be useful to see how mods to the motor might have an impact on how motor noise can be influenced by different mounting materials, things like adding dynamat. I can already tell how accurately the platter spins so I should be able to produce some little mini reports as these updates progress. I also now have two top plates which have been modified so swapping between the two will mean that small mods can be assessed to see if they have been beneficial. But like all things audio it's really the ears which dictate what sound good. I've been very lucky so far when modding the '75 as most things seem to have improved the decks performance as we've progressed over the previous months but frustratingly I've not been able to justify (or try to explain) why these mods have worked. I'm hoping that this going to change. The first measured experiments will be to do with increased top plate rigidity and mass. Should be fun, then maybe some expermentation with better clamping, coupling and dampening of the idler arm mounting. As ever..... Stay tuned.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  6. #1026
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    Mmm... this sounds interesting Andy . It will be interesting to explain changes in SQ scientifically as well as in listening tests . Although your bearing is different to mines it shouldn't be too hard to implement your recommendations if you find an optimal combination for oil / grease Andy . I look forward to your findings mate
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  7. #1027
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Brian,

    the test results will only really be for a bit of fun and just to Demonstrate the results from various materials and recommended tweaks. The test equipment and workshop are hardly world class. My garage and a few bits bought from eBay. I'm looking at getting a vibrometer shortly to experiment with the effects of coupling and decoupling and provide some interesting lessons on protecting vibration and resonance getting into the cartridge.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  8. #1028
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    I then look forward to the arrival of more sophisticated measuring equipment Andy

    Seriously though , I still regards many of your posts as interesting and have tried out a couple of your suggestions

    i still really like the GL75 in stock form but I know through this thread that there are quite a few covert improvements which can be applied without changing the appearance of the turntable .
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  9. #1029
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVII - Measurin' up.

    I bought a cheapo decibel meter the other day, accurate to 0.1 db and I decided to have a quick listen under the hood to ascertain how much noise the old Lenco motor kicks out. So, ambient noise levels in quiet urban areas reach approx 45db (accorinding to the net). My listening room measures approx 41db. I had the decibel meter not more than 3" away from the motor and I got a consistant reading of +/- 43.5db. So, the motor on the Reference Lenco kicks out ~2.5db which is bloody quiet. This isn;t quite as good as the Garrard 301 which I own which seems to kick out 42.5-43.0db which is slightly lower. I have no idea why the Lenco motor only kicks out 2.5-3.0db would imagine that it's probably down to decent motor springs, decent rebuild of the motor and extensive useage of varied materials in the decks construction. These measurement are useful to look at the decks performance and I would assume that a lower decibel level would mean a lower vibrational level through the motor and maybe less vibrational energy being dumped into the plinth? I have no idea, maybe one day I should look at this. My understanding is quite simplistic and I would assume that it's beneficial to try and get the db level down as far as possible. So, this begs the question does a specific db level generate a specific Hz frequency which may be negatively beneficial to the Lenco's function? This is certainly an area which begs for more research. The other area of interest has been the bearings performance and I must confess that even owning a 2017 180g version of HFN test disc and an installed version of audicity has still not roused me from my lethargy, so maybe the next week or two may produce some results. The Goldring 99 restoration has halted the progression of the '75 but I'm hoping to produce my final modified version of the '75's top plate over the next few weeks and it should be quite interesting to assess the vibrational characteristics of the Lenco as it is now and then with a fresh rebuild with a new moddded top plate. I need to by a vibrometer to achieve this but for the time being I'm enjoying the deck. OK, enough for tonight, as ever stay tuned.....
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  10. #1030
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVIII - The Future

    The '75 has been rather lonely of late due to a Goldring 99 but I'm glad to say that the 99 is now on the back burner for a little while whilst I wait for some things to be delivered. I've already started on the latest top plate modifications which should add additional stiffness and mass which hopefully nukes those naughty vibrations a little more efficiently. I'm also designing and building a new plinth and It'll take into consideration the logic of coupling the bottom of the top plate to the plinth by increasing surface area and again hopefully spreading vibration over a much wider area. The motor will be decouple on its own mount and so will the tonearm. I'm going to purchase a vibrometer and hopefully should be able to start and measure just how the various bits of the deck are affected by vibration. I'll probably produce a whole set of readings for the deck in it's current configuration and then again when the newly designed top plate, plinth and decouple motor/tonarm configuration goes into service. So, work starts tomorrow and I'll post some pictures as I get time.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



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