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Thread: Arm effective mass confusion

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Yes, but the subtraction doesn't apply in use because one would fit the headshell, therefore its individual mass would always be included in the overall equation, and thus affect how the cartridge behaves accordingly

    I've never tried using the stock Technics arm without its headshell, but I guess that for DJs and other users alike, it would give a whole new meaning to the term 'scratching'!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #12
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Milano, Italy

    Posts: 17

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    I have jusy found a service manual where it is clearly stated that the Tech has a "low 12-gram effective tonearm mass (including headshell, without cartridge...)".
    You are right!
    Now, I go immediately to add the 7.5g of lacking mass to my stock arm (slightly modded).

    Thanks again, and good night,
    Siro
    Turntable - Technics SP15 & SL1210M5G; Pioneer PL-71; Cartridges - DL-301mk2, DL-103R & AT33PTG; Pre-phono - NVA; SACD player - Arcam CD37; Pre-passive - NVA P90sa; Power bi-amp - NVA A80+A70; Loudspeakers - Opera Quinta New; Music - Classical, Opera and Contemporary.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Non c'e' problema - era una grande piacere!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #14
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

    Default

    I thought the arm seemed overly-lightweight as standard. IIRC, it's ancestors were rather more "solid."
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    I presume by that you mean the armtube itself, Dave? Perhaps; I'm not sure.

    We're getting bogged down a bit with the headshell thing, though... The fact is, the headshell is an integral part of the arm and also the arm's effective mass.

    Normally headshells are fixed, so the component parts of a tonearm, in terms of their individual mass, don't come under such scrutiny!

    An overall mass of 12g is perfectly adequate, and is actually greater than that of some tonearms currently produced by so-called 'hi-end' manufacturers... Of course, in many circumstances, reducing mass is an essential part of a tonearm's design principles. Heavier is not necessarily better.

    Much depends on the partnering cartridge as to how ideal or not an arm's effective mass is. It's certainly a significant bonus with detachable headshell arms that this can be 'tuned' to suit the needs of individual cartridges, depending on which headshell is fitted. You can't do that with an RB300, for example

    In my experience also, low-compliance cartridges (such as the Denon DL-103) prefer mass applied at the headshell end, than on the armtube and associated assembly, as this is the 'business end' which affects the performance of the cartridge most in terms of its need for extra mass.

    In actual fact, the DL-103 works best on a fairly 'lossy' arm of medium-mass as standard, fitted with a heavy headshell. This is precisely why the Jelco SA-750D works so well with the 103, when partnered with an Audio-Technica LH-18 or one of the heavy-duty NOS magnesium headshells I use. Excellent results can also be obtained with some unipivots, such as Hadcocks, providing that their headshells have been suitably 'bolstered'.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

    Default

    well, it has always been regarded as a ultra low mass arm.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Knebworth, Herts

    Posts: 218
    I'm Retief.

    Default

    Is the Jelco 750D's effective mass 20g with the headshell then? What is the mass of the Jelco headshell?

    Cheers
    Retief
    Analogue: Origin Live Resolution mk2,OL Encounter mk3c,MM III and isolator.Digital:CA 840C.Amplification:Croft RIAA R, Icon Audio LA4mkii,Icon Audio MB845 signature version.Speakers: Kef Reference 203/2 Cables: Mark Grant G2000HD. Speaker cable Van Damme Hi-Fi UP-LCOFC.Headphone: Grado PS1000,HD650,HD600,Icon Audio HP8 RCM DIY Moth

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