Old Ortofon budget carts, just the stylus?

[Rothchild]

Amongst recent acquisitions I've picked up an FF15e mk2 and a VMS2e both with rubbish needles.

The thing I've noticed is that the bodies on them are indistinguishable from each other and, in the absence of a ready supply of 'real' replacements, all the aftermarket replacements for both models appear to be the same (albeit that there's an eliptical and a conical option on ebay).

Are they actually the same and just have different labels on them, are they the same and have different needles on them or are they actually materially different (and if so how do I make sure I've not got them muddled up)?

[gsq4848]

Don't know if this will be of any help, the information use to be available from the Ortofon website, doesn't seem to be there now. Excuse the picture quality




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[Rothchild]

Thanks Garry,

I'd found most of that info on their website, the main issue I have at the moment is that I can't seem to find any reference to the vms2e - again all the bodies look the same so I'm still a bit lost.

http://www.ortofon.com/vms-cartridges-p-614

I note that the vms20 is something of a different beast, with very high compliance - but i don't think that's what I've got.

[gsq4848]

Marc,

There's mention on Vinyl Engine in a couple of posts suggesting the VMS2e is a rebadged VMS10e.

[Rothchild]

That's handy, thanks.

It does look that to all intents and purposes they are both the same body and the differences between them are in the stylus -so apart from the moderately expensive (in the context of semi disposable carts) real ortofon VMS3e I can either play compare and contrast between the conical and eliptical pattern piece or just do one as they're both the same.

Looking at the ortofon pages there's no external physical difference between any of the cart bodies - it would be great to know definitively if they're all the same inside.

[walpurgis]

I have to say, I didn't really get on with most of the M/F/FF/VMS Ortofons I tried (don't ask, the list is too long and I probably won't recall them all ).

The presentation was always acceptable, but somehow there was a sense of 'lack of drama'. I got on better with Shures of the same sort of vintage.

(and found what I really wanted once I bought a good ADC)

[Rothchild]

Yeah, my Shure collection is growing - I definitely like their house sound.

Perhaps I'll sack off the stylus for these Ortofons and go chasing and ADC instead.

[helma]

Look into the hole where the plastic stylus plug goes - the VMS carts should/could have little metallic inserts there making the hole hourglass shaped, while some of the FF carts had no inserts. I think electrically they should be the same, the difference is the VMS body will only accept hourglass shaped plugs while the body with no insert could be a bit more accepting. This whole range by Ortofon was very confusing in some regards with stylus compability. The M20E stylus is basically identical to VMS20E and readily available for a decent price, BUT it doesn't fit the VMS body unless you perform some plastic surgery which I found out the hard way (the plugs are identical so I thought it would be a drop-in fit).

I like the VMS carts, though haven't found good aftermarket styli for them. The VMS20 and 30 need a pretty light arm though to perform their best. It seems they were commonly used in medium mass arms back in the day but that really isn't a good match, making the sound overly laid back. With a lighter arm they have more punch and clarity. Excellent bass which is really well defined and goes deep. Since comparison to Shure was brought up, for me a no brainer to go with the Ortofon, but I never really got along all that well with the Shures, not heard any of the top models though, only M75/M91 with a variety of styli. I always thought they had a bit of a bumpy bass and a recessed midrange/presence.

[Arkless Electronics]

I really like the VMS30 and have a couple of them. I much prefer them to Shure....

[Rothchild]

Thanks Kai,

Yes, there is that small physical difference between the 2, one has a small bit of extra plastic at the top of the hole where the plastic stub fits in, the other doesn't - that is the only difference that I can see between them.

Given that there's a bit of a following for these carts I guess I'll give one of them a swing, I guess nominally the vms is the better one so I'll put a new stylus on that and see what happens.