Analogue Warmth - where does it come from?

[lurcher]

I very definitely agree old pal. Digital synths do not use the raw basics of sound generation, instead they use digital waveforms held in ROM. They then use DCO's to turn that representation of a waveform into a sound. This of course can be manipulated further if one chooses.

I will always prefer analogue synths to digital synths as they are massively more 'organic'. In terms of sound reproduction, I differ from what I have just said, these days, I prefer CD to analogue.

But what about the first time those "glassy sounds" appeared, I remember the Yamaha DX7, it could do loads of great things with its FM synthesis, but try as we might, it could not make the same sounds as the mini moog that sat on top of it. FM synthesis started with pure sine waves just like the Moog could, but the result was very different because the process was very different. The DX7 did just what you say they didn't. they started with raw basics, there were no waveform roms. At the same time the Synclavier which was also FM based made loads of fat "analogue" sounds (not that we could afford to get our hands on one).

[Haselsh1]

I think you will find that Moog's do not use sine waves. They use square, saw and triangle which are full of harmonics unlike a sine wave. They also have a mixer section like my current synth that allows continuous blending of any of those waveforms. The possibilities are massive with the mixer section.

Hmmm... Yamaha DX7, my most hated synth ever.

[Haselsh1]

Of course digitally, if you have enough data points doesn't that equate to analogue...??

[Rothchild]

Err, just to note that subtractive synthesis (what most analogue synths use - a waveform generator with (normally) envelopes/oscillators (LFO) to control pitch and amplitude) can be implemented in both analogue and digital domains - something like a Novation A-Station is a digital subtractive synth, which in topology is very much like 2 Roland SH101s stacked up in a single box.

Frequency Modulation (FM) is more likely to be implemented digitally, it uses sine waves as both 'operators' and 'modulators' to build up very complex waves, and yes is great for things like bells with very complex harmonics and are vary difficult to make with subtractive synths.

The point is that the synthesis method and whether it's analogue or digital are separate things, but they seem to be getting confused in this thread

I like Stan's point though, beyond the theorising they are all implemented in circuits and the better those circuits are designed the more 'accurate' the outcome is likely to be regardless of analogue or digitalness.

[Marco]

I like Stan's point though, beyond the theorising they are all implemented in circuits and the better those circuits are designed the more 'accurate' the outcome is likely to be regardless of analogue or digitalness.

Indeed!

Optimal implementation is what it's all about.

Marco.

[lurcher]

I think you will find that Moog's do not use sine waves. They use square, saw and triangle which are full of harmonics unlike a sine wave. They also have a mixer section like my current synth that allows continuous blending of any of those waveforms. The possibilities are massive with the mixer section.

Hmmm... Yamaha DX7, my most hated synth ever.

Yep, memory fail on my part, the extra oscillator I built for it did, but thats neither here or there. My point was that they didnt need to use wave tables, they may have done, but the basic of a DX7 was a sine wave, not a sampled or other complex shape.

[Haselsh1]

Sincerest apologies for side tracking this thread.

Having spent money on a Benz Micro Silver HOMC cartridge I now find that I much prefer CD to vinyl. My main reason is down to the type of music I listen to. I just don't think my favourite music sounds anywhere near as impressive on vinyl.

So, I bought a s/h Bushmaster MkII with a custom built DC psu. Much better...!

[Haselsh1]

Yep, memory fail on my part, the extra oscillator I built for it did, but thats neither here or there. My point was that they didnt need to use wave tables, they may have done, but the basic of a DX7 was a sine wave, not a sampled or other complex shape.

Yes of course, you are correct. Still my most hated ever synth...

[lurcher]

Sincerest apologies for side tracking this thread.

Having spent money on a Benz Micro Silver HOMC cartridge I now find that I much prefer CD to vinyl. My main reason is down to the type of music I listen to. I just don't think my favourite music sounds anywhere near as impressive on vinyl.

So, I bought a s/h Bushmaster MkII with a custom built DC psu. Much better...!

I think you may be sidetracking the sidetrack. The thread was originally not about CD and vinyl at all from my understanding.

[Marco]

Sincerest apologies for side tracking this thread.

Having spent money on a Benz Micro Silver HOMC cartridge I now find that I much prefer CD to vinyl. My main reason is down to the type of music I listen to. I just don't think my favourite music sounds anywhere near as impressive on vinyl.

So, I bought a s/h Bushmaster MkII with a custom built DC psu. Much better...!

Happy days, Shaun! However, with respect, I don't think you've taken vinyl far enough to have gotten the most out of it, so I'm not surprised, in that respect, at what you've found. A top-notch digital source will outperform most budget-to-midrange T/Ts, which correct me if I'm wrong, is all you've owned to date.

Trust me, play some superbly recorded 12" singles of dance/ambient/synthesiser music, on a well-fettled SL-1200/1210 (or something else of that ilk), and you may arrive at a rather different conclusion!

Marco.