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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #471
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 73,291
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Any thoughts on that, Martin?

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  2. #472
    Join Date: Jul 2011

    Location: Northamptonish

    Posts: 1,595
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJo View Post
    Steve the Progmeister agreed and commented it was like listening to an FM broadcast.
    Hi John. I used to find that the Technics amplifiers of the 80s and 90s were also voiced that way ... must have been a 'house sound'.

    Anyway, here's two more 'sick' ones, en-route from Martin, for delivery to Stephen's hospital services when I'm up North again next month.
    My wife wondered if they were cash registers

    “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - William Bruce Cameron

  3. #473
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 18,137
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Any thoughts on that, Martin?

    Marco.
    It's getting someone to do it and the shipping issues. These things are big and heavy, lots of opportunity for the couriers to get smashey smashey with them.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  4. #474
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 18,137
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petrat View Post
    Hi John.

    I used to find that the Technics amplifiers of the 80s and 90s were also voiced that way ... must have been a 'house sound'.

    Anyway, here's two more 'sick' ones, en-route from Martin, for delivery to Stephen's hospital services when I'm up North again next month. My wife wondered if they were cash registers

    Broadcast variant is on the right, note the differences in the layout and the display
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  5. #475
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Co. Durham

    Posts: 1,971
    I'm Stephen.

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    Not one for blowing my own trumpet. My technical knowledge is limited, but I'm not a cretin. And somehow, somehow, I've managed to get four faulty ones working. Whereas, others, with greater technical knowledge than myself, would, I presume, couldn't manage. The laser in the one Martin has was replaced and had to be reset, without a 'scope and test CDs. But, somehow, somehow, I managed to do it, and it was working fine with everything I tried. Looking on-line I have found stories from engineers saying it was difficult to get the 1200 to track. They would get it to track a disc fine, then put on another, and it would skip.

    If I wanted to, I could have simply put the power supply/DAC panel from the one I bought from Jerry which TonyC modded, into Martins. He would now have a sound that would be more controlled, a bit more detailed, greater separation or instruments and a greater sense of extreme right and left imagery. A more Radio 3 type sound.

    He could have had that. He could have had that. But I was less than convinced after hearing Martin's with it's original panel, after getting it working. The thing that struck me, was the sense of clarity, that was missing with Jerry's panel. It wasn't just the clarity, there seemed a better cohesiveness and a sense of biggness compared to Jerry's, which sounded a bit small and restrained. TonyC re-capped the board using some Os-cons, greater value supply capacitors and additional de-coupling capacitors.

    For a good 4 or 5 weeks I tried things and listened to what resulted. This shows some of that:



    The main supply caps were replaced with Panasonic FC types. The carbon film resistors were replaced with metal film types. The op-amps were replaced with more modern ones. The bridge rectifiers were replaced with ultrafast type diodes. The dacs were screened with lead. The wiring to and from the panel was screened with copper foil. Decoupling capacitors were added.

    You might think that all of that would be "for the better". Sadly, sadly, that wasn't the case. Replacing the supply capacitors, and the carbon film resistors on the output panel containing the phono sockets with Panasonic FCs and metal films, did improve overall clarity. But, replacing capacitors elsewhere was less successful. I replaced one set with Panasonic's and another type and the bass texture suffered. So the originals went back in. Changing the original NE 5532 op-amps for LM 4562 ones brought an obvious improvement in dynamics and upper-bass snap - but again at the expense of bass extension and texture. LME 49720HA ones were tried. These are supposed to be top-notch ones. Everything sounded boring as hell, so out they came. Shielding the wires seemed to flatted things and slur transients, so off it came. The carbon film resistors were changed to metal, with mixed results, and then to Takman carbon films, again, with mixed results. At the end of the day, everthing tried had it's own set of compromises, most, anyway. And then there was component burn-in and varying mains quality. One night after trying the 4562 op-amps and some metal film resistors the sense of torque was madness. I stayed up till 2.30 listening. It was like that for a couple of nights, and then disappeared.

    At the end of the day, I chose what seemed like the best compromise. To me, at least.

    COST. What did it cost Martin? NOTHING. He got one working one for one non-working one. When the Broadcast one gets fixed (if), he'll get it back, although he said I could have his two for getting a working one.

    The one he has was totally stripped and cleaned:





    I don't think a service engineer would have bothered. The display was disassembled and cleaned to remove the layer of grime on it and the filter on the reverse. The front perspex panel was polished to remove some scratches. Again, not something an engineer would have bothered with. All the tactile switches were replaced, just for the feel in use. The originals feel pretty shagged. Again, I don't think a service engineer would have bothered.

    To my mind, (but what do I know?) a discrete output stage would offer the most obvious improvement. And that is why I intend to try a Lampizator stage. That and a valve low jitter clock.

    Bring a Sony to the next NEBO, Marco, and I'll bring a Technics as described. Hopefully it will kick the shit out of the Sony. If not, I won't be worried - as I don't have an ego to maintain.

    Ask TonyC what can and cannot be done with a 1200. He has more knowledge and experience of it than I have.

    Sent from my CUBOT_NOTE_S using Tapatalk

  6. #476
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 37,847
    I'm Grant.

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    Blow away.. youve done superbly well. Techy master black belt
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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    DENON DV2900 - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP - AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTH - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER23, SPOTIFY PREMIUM - ECHO DOT - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN's - Q ACOUSTIC BT3 actives - CANTON SUB - MAINS REGENERATED AND FILTERED.

  7. #477
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 9,084
    I'm Jerry.

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    Very interesting indeed, Stephen.
    And nice work, if I may say so!!

    I must admit that I had hoped TonyC's mods (I hadn't realised they were so extensive!) would blow me away and take it to the sort of sound quality level that Marco is on about.
    But no, a definite and hearable improvement - but basically just a bit better all round, iirc, with nothing to go WOW about, even for an over-excitable chappie like me!
    Jerry

    Spotify Premium streaming, Wadia 151 PowerDAC, MBL 116F.
    or
    >> Currently >>Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC/pre, Pass Labs X150 power amp, MBL 116F.
    or
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC/pre, LA Audio A-30 el84 integrated amp, MBL 116F.

  8. #478
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 172
    I'm Bruce.

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    Well impressed, Stephen! That's some care and energy to find what worked and what didn't.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Calyx 24/192 DAC, Laptop w/JRMC. Amplification: Classe Audio 30/70 balanced. Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1sc. Cables/stands: spkr MIT MH-750 / HT Truthlink XLR, Vampire AI2, RFC Pluto, heavy sand-filled Target stands for speakers and Hi-Fi. Bass traps in corners, acoustic panels at first reflection points. Isolation: Roller bearings & cups, inner tubes. Mains: Balanced power transformer feeding hydra mains block.

  9. #479
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 18,137
    I'm Martin.

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    Thanks Stephen, all interesting stuff. The cosmetic condition is amazing, looks and feels brand new.

    Did you make any changes to the output level? Seems to be lower than I remember.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  10. #480
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: Derbyshire

    Posts: 7,211
    I'm Josie.

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    I've always fancied one of those players. I think they look great.

    Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
    Preamplifier: Croft Epoch Elite - Dual external PSU & Upgrades
    Amplifier: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp No. 5 using KT150's
    Digital: Raspberry Pi & ALLO Piano DAC & KALI - IQAudio DAC with SBooster Linear BOBW PSU & Trio DP700 CDP
    Turntable: Thorens TD124 MkII - Schopper refurbished
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    Cables/Mains: Mark Grant Black Series mains cables & 6-Way power bar
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    Mains Other: Tube Distinctions/Mark Grant 'The Power Works' Digital noise mains power filter TD2414-MG - Nick Gorham DC Blocker unit constructed by Mark Grant

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