Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

[User211]

A cheap Chinese preamp isn't the goal - it'll just make the point.

ARC preamps were very popular in front of Krells for many, many years for good reason. That's the point.

I'm trying to get you to dump the passive... with good reason.

[Macca]

I have active pre-amps here I could put in. But I don't understand what the benefit could be. The Krell is not incompatible with a passive.

[User211]

Feel free to ignore what I say. It is just that from personal experience I find:

1) Active SS pre to SS power amps can work well.
2) Passive pre to valve power amps can work well.
3) Valve pre to SS power amps can work well - generally better than 1) I have found.
4) Passive pre to SS power not likely to be great.
5) Valve pre to valve power can work well.

Plenty of people using 4) I am sure. But in general I don't find it a good option. And I am actually using 4) in my 2nd system at the moment, albeit with a Air Tight passive i.e. a good one. 3) would be better but it is a 2nd system and it works well enough.

[Macca]

I've done all the combinations you are listing and I favour option 4.

1 is 'unmusical' but has the wallop
2 Yes, has a magic of its own but doesn't have the wallop, unless you spend shitloads on the power amp
3 Is coloured unless you spend a shitload on the pre-amp - although will confess I have always fancied a go of an ARC pre amp.

But I appreciate your input

[User211]

But I appreciate your input

There are no rules and WTF do I know I am not you. Also, my opinions have changed over time anyway to arrive at the general rule of thumb above. It's a massive generalisation, though, and what works in one situ doesn't necessarily in another. Tis all madness

[southall-1998]

Justin,

Turn down the volume!!!!!!!!!!



S.

[struth]

Okay, it appears I was a bit over cautious in my previous post. I guess the Krell just doesn't like Chord Odessey speaker cable, this is a big improvement.

Two albums I have had trouble getting to sound right for a couple of years, ZZ Top's First Album (too thin and hard) and Simply Red's Stars (hard and overly compressed - and stop sniggering at the back that boy) sounded spot on.

The emphasis on the leading edge is gone but the sound is much more natural and realistic as a result. I'm quite taken aback. And bear in mind I am still using jumpers to the mid and tops that are nothing more than nondescript (although virgin) lengths of 79 strand.

speaker cable to the rescue was it. Surprising how that works but it does.

[Macca]

I'll need a longer listen but it does seem that way.

[DSJR]

You were using ODYSSEY??????? Oh fuck, I had no idea

Odyssey sounds great with lower caste amps and softer toned speakers - we sold many km of the stuff with Spendor 'S' series speakers and as a Naim A5 upgrade* but with a krell - ugh!!! and in our day it was the FPB and KAV400 era, the earlier KAV's and KSA's were far too lean and stripped out with Rumour and Odyssey.

*Purely my experiences, but odyssey and similar silver-plated copper instrument wires have to my ears a scrappy hashy hf. Into over damped restrained speakers it works very well and was 'better' than Naim A5 and with a similar kind of 'HiFi' presentation I remember, but into a 'decent' wideband system the sound was clearly messed up and kind of out of focus from bass to treble. The 'KJ' recommendation at the time for Krell-standard speaker cables was VDH 'The Wind' and for whatever reason, it really did work well with Krell amps. I used my NVA LS5 with great results too...

As for the preamp, it's difficult and personal. A high quality passive volume control CAN'T take more away or add any more than an active design unless the power amp NEEDS an active buffer stage to drive it, as there's only one high quality resistor in the line plus (in macca's case) a shunted resistor to ground to govern the volume attenuation. This particular Krell needs 1.3V for full output. CD players and many phono stages can meet or beat this need, so if the interconnects are short, then why not a precision attenuator for volume settings?

OK - my vibe again, so one of you at least in another thread thinks I'm deaf and deluded if I think a passive is better than a good line buffer. I'll take that, but the whole point about ARC preamps was that their (mostly) designed-in warmth of tone (a deliberate colouration/processing so not really 'high fidelity' in the true sense) kind of neutralised any stridency on the Krell power amps used with them. THIS generation of Krell was a departure, sounding less hard and tonally flat than the previous range, which was hot running and pretty horrible PA style of presentation if memory serves - maybe it was worn out or over-stressed caps, but they really weren't very nice despite the cachet. The variable 'plateau-bias' design made these amps usable in the real world and to me sounded rather better too. I personally don't think this amp NEEDS to be hobbled with a coloured sounding preamp from the US.

This Krell seems to be a fully balanced design from input to output and doesn't have balanced-to-single ended chips or transformer on the input. Use with single ended phono plugs entails tying one leg of the balanced input to ground. If macca was to try an active preamp, then I'd suggest a properly balanced one such as a vintage Levinson or a well cared for top line Krell perhaps - I was recommended a KRC2 over the 3 by a Krell expert of many years, but haven't tried them and I'm sure there are many others, as well as others, but they ought to be proper balanced designs rather than hobbled single ended circuits with an extra balanced buffer tacked on the back.

Sorry for the long post above.

[moo-fi]

The big Focal's are fussy, positioning is key as I have never heard a speaker change so much with a couple of inches of movement. The best I have heard my 936's sound was on the end of a couple 845 valve amps with a passive pre (music first), otherwise Musical fidelity stuff works well too. Don't use silver plated cables anywhere near them as they will object, but it sounds like you have found this out already.

New tweeters are a little expensive but can be picked up for a couple of hundred for a pair (I have a spare pair just in case).