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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #11
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,100
    I'm Martin.

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    I think you are right Geoff, but it is only very occasionally apparent so It isn't a big issue for me. I'll take that bit of edge over an overly smooth presentation any day.

    I'm waiting on the IMF being sorted before I make a decision about where to go with the speakers. Options are

    1) use the IMFs if they are up to scratch once recapped.

    2) Use the Akais with a better sub than the Yamaha I have now - possibly two subs using the same Akai bass drivers with active crossover, or possibly 2 passive - but large (100 litre) subs and tagged on to the existing Akai crossovers.

    3) use the B&O, again with a better sub either built or bought.

    4) buy some more speakers.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  2. #12
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 3,527
    I'm Alan.

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    see my added comment on #10.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,100
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    see my added comment on #10.
    Interesting idea but the horn units are the tweeters - the other 3 tweeters are super-tweeters so dropping it would give a bit of a gap in the FR - in theory - plus affect the imaging. Probably lose more than might be gained.

    I do have 2 full sets of spare drivers, though, so building a 'super-Akai' from them is tempting.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  4. #14
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,328
    I'm David.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I've decided to start a new thread as the old one was getting a bit long and rambling.

    Plus I have entered a new era and have the lash-up sounding pretty good. good enough that I have actually - gasp - been buying some new music to listen to, instead of playing the same old stuff trying to work out the problems.

    This is the first time since 1995 that I have actually been reasonably happy with the sound of my system.

    Anyway this morning I am in a hi-fi shop!



    Or am I? No, it is just my living room and loudspeakers are piling up.

    On the stands are the B&O MC120.2 that I have just acquired. What a great speaker these are, a total cut above. I like 3 way speakers and I like mid-range domes so thought I would have a try of them. As I'd hoped they are capable of doing that out of box imaging thing, hanging a big soundstage that you can watch like you are watching a film. This is the thing I like about the Akais (also pictured) - you forget that you are listening to loudspeakers altogether.

    The B&O do not have the same dynamic freedom as the Akais, since they are significantly smaller, but there is not a massive difference. And they won't play at the same SPL without complaining either, but they are sufficient for any reasonable listening level.

    As you might expect they are a little more 'refined' than the Akais, which can spit a little with high-octane rock music. The B&O are smoother, but just as open in the mid and top, bass being just a little on the warm and rich side of tight and neutral. Imagine ATC crossed with Harbeth (if you can!) and you sort of have the character of these speakers.

    Since all of my quality speakers are vintage, or need work (like the big IMFs also pictured) I wanted a modern-ish speaker to give me a second opinion on the rest of the system. I did have a listen to Alan's B&W 602 that he kindly brought over a few weeks ago but this gives me the chance for a longer comparison.

    The verdict? As I said at the start it is sounding pretty good. No real foibles in the sound. Sins of omission I can live with but not sins of commission. I can't hear any sins of commission here. Could things be better on the amp and source side? Well possibly, I suppose the CD player could be bettered and maybe the power amp, but I am not in any desperate need to upgrade them. I will abide and see what comes along that is of interest in those areas.

    Back to the B&O and one point I think must be made - why buy brand new speakers when bargains like these are available on the forums for 200 that are several levels up in terms of quality over what you will get for that money even in a store that does offer good budget value like Richer Sounds?

    I leave you to mull over that one.

    I have to say Martin, your speaker choices are a bit left field

    I have to say from my side of the counter, that B&O went through a terrible speaker phase with this range - PHASE being the operative word. The smaller ones sort of got away with it, having the tweeters well separated from the bass units, but the more complex they got, the worse the sound became. The 120's were top of the range and I think they were slightly better than the absolutely horrible MC 80's they made, but out of phase drivers, midrange colouration and random peaks and dips in the response used to give me prolonged headaches if I was forced to listen to them (my hearing as much as anything else, but this kind of acoustic treatment on a speaker affects me - one reason why I hardly ever listened to my repaired Spendor BC2's until just recently after I padded the HF1300 tweeter down a little further).

    Try the B&O's on applause as well as light folk and jazz. Watch for a sucked out upper mid masquerading for 'air and space.'

    Sorry about the above, but I suppose that I'd have been looking for bigger AR models (2ax, 3a or replacements - 10pi's are too rare and expensive) in need of a re-foam, or possibly KEF Concerto's which came to life on low 10" stands. I wonder if you'd like AR90's accepting the bass units may need attention.

    P.S. I know you'd like the Beovox 5700/5702 as it's a cut down Ditton 66, or at least the 5702 was as I remember https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=475 I suspect the cab volume was more like the Ditton 551, which was a very fine speaker I remember.

    P.P.S. I do love the old IMF's, but the bass on these early TL's was a bit loose in the lower regions - not an issue with the sources and amps then often used. I still think that some added subtle resistance in the lines (easily removed cushion inners?) would tame the floppy low bass and balance out the mid bass a bit, as what you gain very low down is paid for by nasties further up the bass register - look at HFW review on PMC FB1's for an better explanation - they all do it.
    Last edited by DSJR; 12-03-2016 at 13:23.
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me; Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me.....................

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 2,999
    I'm James.

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    A lot of woofers there to choose from Martin? I presume you can just plug in according to what music suits best.

    Bear in mind lots of speakers together in one room does have an effect on the speakers playing. They excite each other!
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  6. #16
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,100
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post

    Bear in mind lots of speakers together in one room does have an effect on the speakers playing. They excite each other!
    There are 4 other pairs in the room as well as those you can see. Plus the sub, of course.

    Dave - comprehensive reply as always Yes I like left field choices because I've done the boring little 2 ways and floor
    standing 2.5 ways and I like to check out other approaches to speaker design not available new to the enthusiast on a budget. Of course if you have thousands to spend the choice can get very left field on the new market - but I don't.

    The 120.2 were the midpoint of a very large range (not the top) but are considered the 'sweet spot' apparently. They are a bit 'phasey' although not sure we are talking about the same thing. But there is quite a big shift in presentation above and below axis. Listening it a distance does smooth this out a bit, though.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  7. #17
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,100
    I'm Martin.

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    Update: The crossovers on the IMF TLS Fifties are getting fixed this week - possibly as early as Monday! Then it will be shoot-out time with the TSL50 vs the Akai SW175 plus subwoofer. The IMF don't need the sub, they scoff at it in fact. But with the Akais it just fills the mid-bass in perfectly. There is no deep bass but you do get speed (and slam, if you whack it up a bit).

    This must be the longest I've gone in years without swapping boxes or cables. All music types sound pleasing and enjoyable. Not the last word, but listenable with the odd impressive moment. I've actually been able to listen to music instead of the system, which is rare for me. Even if I change stuff in the future I will be keeping all the components of this current lash up so I can always go back to it in a pinch.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 26,784
    I'm Geoff.

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    Still got the Calindas Martin?
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  9. #19
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 3,527
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I've actually been able to listen to music instead of the system,
    That is great to hear Martin, I can understand the sense of satisfaction from that

  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,100
    I'm Martin.

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    Yep still got them. Five sets of speakers in the room at the moment. The B&O have gone upstairs whilst I figure out what to do with them. They really are excellent by any standard but are just not quite big enough so are a bit 'lost' in my room.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

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