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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The other thing to consider, which may be responsible for the current lack of 'excitement' in Martin's system, is that big powerful solid-state amps, such as Krells, primarily designed for difficult loads, and providing speakers with grip [which he doesn't own or need], usually have a high damping factor, and in the wrong system that can have the effect of sucking the life out of the music - especially if needing serviced.

    One thing you could try in the interim to us visiting, Martin, is plumb in the XTZ again. Or if you don't want to disturb the TV system, and still have a power amp from 'he who cannot be named', which I think you said that you had somewhere, use that, and then see if despite it resulting in some sonic compromises, the 'excitement' (and possibly "crunch") comes back...

    Please do this when you can and report back

    Marco.
    Interestingly, amp damping factor is considered to be irrelevant driving planar magnetic speakers. And planar magnetic headphones. Just thought I'd say. I have an amp with variable DF, and I can't really hear a difference on the Apogees.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubehunter View Post
    your problem is:

    P90SA passive pre

    into


    Krell KSA-50S power amplifier Specifications

    Input sensitivity: 1.34V RMS. Gain: 26dB. Input impedance: 47k ohms.


    Try an active pre


    Happy Days
    What you need is the Jez Arkless buffer between passive pre and power amp.
    He made me one, if you recall, and it works fab, but not needed in my current setup.
    Jez reckoned the buffer would be in its element in this situation.

    Happy to loan it to you to try out, Martin.
    Last edited by struth; 20-10-2017 at 16:39.
    .

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Interestingly, amp damping factor is considered to be irrelevant driving planar magnetic speakers. And planar magnetic headphones. Just thought I'd say. I have an amp with variable DF, and I can't really hear a difference on the Apogees.
    You won't - the mass of the diaphragms of planar speakers such as Apogees, Magnaplanars or electrostatics is very low; far lower than the mass of the cone of a conventional driver.
    Barry

  4. #574
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    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tubehunter View Post
    your problem is:

    P90SA passive pre

    into


    Krell KSA-50S power amplifier Specifications

    Input sensitivity: 1.34V RMS. Gain: 26dB. Input impedance: 47k ohms.


    Try an active pre


    Happy Days
    Good suggestion, Dunc! Martin could try the buffer thing, if he wants Jerry to loan him it, and/or I could take the Croft with me to perform active preamp duties

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Interestingly, amp damping factor is considered to be irrelevant driving planar magnetic speakers. And planar magnetic headphones. Just thought I'd say. I have an amp with variable DF, and I can't really hear a difference on the Apogees.
    Yup... Like I said "in the wrong system", which yours isn't, so it doesn't apply

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    You won't - the mass of the diaphragms of planar speakers such as Apogees, Magnaplanars or electrostatics is very low; far lower than the mass of the cone of a conventional driver.
    I'm not so sure. I have an Apogee bass panel foil hanging around. I'll go weigh it now.

  7. #577
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

    Default Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

    The buffer won’t add any gain though, and that Krell has low gain / low input sensitivity. As a comparison my amp has 0.8v input sensitivity and 33db gain, which on paper is a better match for passive or unity gain active (buffer) preamps.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  8. #578
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    I'm Justin.

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    46 grams.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    The buffer won’t add any gain though, and that Krell has low gain / low input sensitivity. As a comparison my amp has 0.8v input sensitivity and 33db gain, which on paper is a better match for passive or unity gain active (buffer) preamps.
    Ah, I had no idea how the buffer thingy Jerry was recommending works, so that's out then. But Dunc's observation is right, so Martin needs to hear the Krell with an active preamp, to hear what he might be missing, and also his existing passive pre with a different power amp.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #580
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    https://www.ebay.com/p/12-Tall-Roll-...d=132227131178

    If the mass of that cone in a cheap sub is typical at 140g, and the Apogee bass panel is equivalent to 3 of them, which it is supposed to be, we have 420g versus 46g i.e. a factor of ten lighter.

    More of a difference than I appreciated as the foil/kapton/glue mix doesn't feel light. The bass panel's mass will be beyond that of a mylar only panel, but they just can't do substantial dynamic deep bass in ESL designs.
    Last edited by User211; 20-10-2017 at 17:22.

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