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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #611
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Well, as us subjectivists always say: 'The proof of the pudding is in the listening'! So if Martin does decide to get the amp recapped at some point, we'll find out if your theories are correct, or not

    Marco.
    I've put at least 600 hours on the Krell since I got it. Maybe that has tipped it over? Having just spent a few hours listening to a fairly new (1 year old) power amp I'm thinking the Krell does not sound like it used to. I can get it recapped if it needs it, that's no big deal.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #612
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I've put at least 600 hours on the Krell since I got it. Maybe that has tipped it over?
    It's always a possibility... It would be interesting, before you do anything, to have the caps measured and see if they're still within spec. Perhaps your EE could do that? If they've drifted badly, they'll *definitely* need replacing, and then it's almost certain that you'll experience some significant sonic improvements.

    Having just spent a few hours listening to a fairly new (1 year old) power amp I'm thinking the Krell does not sound like it used to. I can get it recapped if it needs it, that's no big deal.
    So is the "crunch" back and/or the 'excitement'? What have you perceived about the difference in sound in general, minus the Krell, with the other amp in?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #613
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

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    Just a lot more life to it. Not a subtle difference. Sounds a lot like the Krell used to sound. Not quite, the Krell had a little bit more to it, but very close. All I've done is swap power amps. So has to be the power amp?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #614
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    or connections..or....

    nowt simple with audio
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

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  5. #615
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Martin. If you're seeing Oliver, get him to bring the Slagle AVC along. You may have a big surprise, after all, you have nothing to lose from hearing it. It'll certainly have more body and vitality than a straightforward passive.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  6. #616
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Martin. If you're seeing Oliver, get him to bring the Slagle AVC along. You may have a big surprise, after all, you have nothing to lose from hearing it. It'll certainly have more body and vitality than a straightforward passive.
    This is happening Geoff, arranged earlier. Just need to get a date that suits everyone!

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  7. #617
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Hm no I think for an equivalent area to the panel I posted it would weigh over 1g. For an ESL bass panel of equivalent area I believe you'll find a thicker diaphragm is what you would need. I don't think we could find an ESL with as large a bass diaphragm as the mid of the Apogee range Duetta, though.

    I do think it will be less than 46g by a factor of 10 or more, though, at a guess. Most of the mass in mine is aluminium.

    I am not totally sure. So don't quote that anywhere as some sort of truth anyone please Not that you would anyway LOL.

    I decided to calculate the masses for the diaphragms of the Quad 57 ESL.

    The bass panels are made of 12um thick SARAN (polyvinyledine chloride, density 1.63g.cm-3), 30cm wide by 58cm high, so their mass is 3.4g.

    The mid/treble panel is made of 6um thick Mylar/Melinex (polyethylteraphalate, density 1.4g.cm-3), 15cm wide by 58cm high, so the mass is 0.73g.

    So the mass of the bass panels is heavier than I thought. They are consideably smaller in size than that of your Apogees.

    It also shows that Wikipedia is not infallible!
    Barry

  8. #618
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    I didn't know the bass panels were not Melinex.

    (either that, or I'd forgotten )
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #619
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Just a lot more life to it. Not a subtle difference. Sounds a lot like the Krell used to sound. Not quite, the Krell had a little bit more to it, but very close. All I've done is swap power amps. So has to be the power amp?
    Cool - glad that the amp swap over has proved fruitful. I thought that might be an issue, and your "a lot more life to it" comment says it all!

    However, now comes the hard bit... Why has that happened? Is it because the Krell needs re-capped, or is it because the high damping factor of the amp isn't a good match with your speakers (and your other amp is better in that respect) - or indeed a bit of both?

    My view is if you like the Krell and think that it sounded better when you first got it, with the same speakers and passive preamp, then it's probably ripe for a re-cap, as what else could explain such a sudden and very obvious deterioration in sound?

    If you're going to get it re-capped (certainly have your EE measure the old ones first), I wouldn't go too 'fooey' on the replacements. If you want to stick with electrolytic ones (which I suspect is what's in there already), then F&T do a comprehensive range of types and values, at sensible prices, sold through HFC:

    https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...apacitors.html

    They're German made and very good. I use them (by-passed by Clarity Cap MRs) in the PSU section of the Copper amp, and they sound fab!

    Failing that, it you want to try some polypropylene ones, which arguably should be better, then as a 'dip your toe in the water' option, I'd recommend Clarity Cap ESA: https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...tycap_esa.html

    However, aside from re-capping the Krell, I think we should eliminate any issue of the low input sensitivity of the Krell not being the best match for a passive preamp, so we need to try an active preamp with the Krell, which can either be my Croft or Alan's KIN.

    Then we can carry out comparisons such as your passive preamp with the Krell vs. Croft (or KIN) with the Krell, and your passive preamp and spare power amp together vs. Croft (or KIN) with your spare power amp, etc, just to see exactly what's going on in terms of all relevant considerations!

    Should be interesting

    Marco
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #620
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I didn't know the bass panels were not Melinex.

    (either that, or I'd forgotten )
    The bass panels are made of Sarin, which is the trade name for polyvinyldinechloride (PVDC). The mid/treble panels are made of polyethylteraphalate (PET). 'Melinex' is ICI's trade name for PET, whereas 'Mylar' is DuPont's trade name for the same.
    Barry

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