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Thread: Brimar

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Kent

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    I'm Clark.

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    If a manufacturer is going to set up to build new valves then either they just compete in the current replacement market with the same old range of ECC, EL or KT valves or they could be adventurous and make a new version of the Telefunken EC 8020 or the STC 3A/167M at a reasonable price

  2. #22
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    I am intrigued by this. How is the owner meant to replace the valves at the end of their useful life? and how does it deal with the change in characteristics as the valves are used?
    It has to come back to base for valve replacement. The 88 will wear before the 83 and it's the latter that really can't be fiddled with by user. When ECC88 is replaced the ECC83 will be replaced at the same time. If the ECC83 is replaced by a random one (it doesn't matter what brand in theory) then THD can go from 0.007% to 0.3% or thereabouts so only selected ones can be fitted. Obviously fitting non "Arkless approved" ones won't damage it but it will result in changes to the sound for the worse... or better to some "pervs" who prefer it distorted, coloured and "characterful". There have been several companies over the years who insist on return to factory for valve replacement so nothing new here.... and only every 2-3+ years.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

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    I'm Nick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    It has to come back to base for valve replacement. The 88 will wear before the 83 and it's the latter that really can't be fiddled with by user. When ECC88 is replaced the ECC83 will be replaced at the same time. If the ECC83 is replaced by a random one (it doesn't matter what brand in theory) then THD can go from 0.007% to 0.3% or thereabouts so only selected ones can be fitted. Obviously fitting non "Arkless approved" ones won't damage it but it will result in changes to the sound for the worse... or better to some "pervs" who prefer it distorted, coloured and "characterful". There have been several companies over the years who insist on return to factory for valve replacement so nothing new here.... and only every 2-3+ years.
    Ok, you do realise you have just typed a good reason for someone not to buy your product dont you?

    And if its designed such that a change in valve can result in that much of a change just how (as I asked before) will it deal with the ageing of the valve over those 2-3 years?

    There have been several companies over the years who insist on return to factory for valve replacement so nothing new here
    Such as?
    Nick.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    I've dealt with it already in my previous post... and although I recall several cases of manufacturers requiring return to base for valve replacement I ain't wasting time googling it....

    It is impossible to get the solid state rivalling measured performance (no negative feedback used!) of this phono stage without very careful selection of valves for each unit. If people consider needing to return it to base for valve replacement too much hassle then other phono stages are available. Simples. I will not compromise on this.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Good point,
    And one i restled with in the Soul series, in the end we designed a dedicated current source that locks the valve to what i want it to draw, this ensures the parameters' as far as current is concerned, cannot change as the valve ages. Also' it makes for easy user friendly changing of the valves.
    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    Ok, you do realise you have just typed a good reason for someone not to buy your product dont you?

    And if its designed such that a change in valve can result in that much of a change just how (as I asked before) will it deal with the ageing of the valve over those 2-3 years?



    Such as?
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  6. #26
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

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    I'm Nick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    I've dealt with it already in my previous post...
    if you have and I have failed to see it then I apologise. I am not talking about a "worn out" valve after 3 years, I am talking about the perfectly normal ageing of a valve over 6 months or so. If the circuit is assuming a perfect unchanging valve then its being (IMHO) overly optimistic. But as you say, its your design, your customers.
    Nick.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Good point,
    And one i restled with in the Soul series, in the end we designed a dedicated current source that locks the valve to what i want it to draw, this ensures the parameters' as far as current is concerned, cannot change as the valve ages. Also' it makes for easy user friendly changing of the valves.

    Exactly, no matter how much you may want it to be so, you cant design with valves like you do with solid state. You have to take their characteristics into account and either make the design cope with or ignore their change in characteristics. Current and voltage regulation can help a lot with this, its why I like to design with a valve surrounded by solid state.
    Nick.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Good point,
    And one i restled with in the Soul series, in the end we designed a dedicated current source that locks the valve to what i want it to draw, this ensures the parameters' as far as current is concerned, cannot change as the valve ages. Also' it makes for easy user friendly changing of the valves.
    I looked into many possibilities but put sound quality above convenience etc. As I say if having to return the unit to base once every few years for valve replacement is too much trouble then don't buy it folks..... Everyone who has heard it so far has said it's the best valve phono stage they have ever heard so hopefully there's method to my madness

  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    if you have and I have failed to see it then I apologise. I am not talking about a "worn out" valve after 3 years, I am talking about the perfectly normal ageing of a valve over 6 months or so. If the circuit is assuming a perfect unchanging valve then its being (IMHO) overly optimistic. But as you say, its your design, your customers.
    There will be some degradation with time obviously but the idea is that even after a few years use it will still be better than a randomly chosen valve. The ECC83 which is the critical one is used very gently and will change only slowly in characteristics. The ECC88 will need changing anyway by this time....

    Valves changing characteristics with age issues is not limited to this design and is an issue with many/most valve amplifiers and valve phono stages!! I could name plenty with much bigger issues than mine in this area but they don't tell you that in their designs the RIAA EQ goes out as the valve ages! It's very common but usually ignored. I choose to mention it as I really don't want people fucking about with my amps and degrading the performance with "tube rolling". Mine does not change in RIAA accuracy as the valves age.

    Most rivals have nowhere near the low distortion of mine and in fact the distortion of theirs will change with valve use as well... just in many cases it's from an already high figure to an even higher one, i.e it goes from 0.2% to 0.4%

    As a hybrid amp it IS surrounded by solid state!

  10. #30
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Indeed, which is why we have never had it so good, as far as being able to use the best of modern technology, in combination with old, And take advantage of what each is best at, according to our own individual design philosophy.
    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    Exactly, no matter how much you may want it to be so, you cant design with valves like you do with solid state. You have to take their characteristics into account and either make the design cope with or ignore their change in characteristics. Current and voltage regulation can help a lot with this, its why I like to design with a valve surrounded by solid state.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

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