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Thread: Denon 301 mk2

  1. #131
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    I would take is easy on the VTF with the 301 mk2 as the suspension is not very robust and liable to fall apart! I would not push it past 1.5g myself.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #132
    blackstar Guest

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    Agreed with that.

  3. #133
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackstar View Post
    Agreed with that.
    +1 my cantilever just fell out. So treat it well and keep to the recommended VTF limits.

    As for VTA, the small amounts of vertical adjustment your making will give only a fraction of a degree difference to the contact area at the tip, so I wouldn't worry about damage to the stylus or the record. If it was damaging either, it wouldn't sound good, I've yet to find one that sounded best when exactly horizontal. Have a look at post #96, I found in two different systems I needed different amounts of VTA, with the same deck/cartridge, so the rest of your kit is contributing to the overall sound. The loading and VTA work together but it's a bit of a Chicken and Egg situation, where you can adjust one to compensate for the other being out. I tend to start by setting the loading at 10 times the cartridge impedance and work on the VTA. Once I have that dialled in I try the loading again to see if that can be improved upon. I never stray far from these as you can chase your tail, over compensating, for one or the other being incorrect.

    The numbers on the VTA adjusting ring are meaningless and only act as a relative guide, different cartridges are of different heights, so you will have to dial in a different number for each one to obtain a horizontal head shell. Every one has their own way of tackling the set up procedure, this is what I do, which seems to work for me. First, make sure your deck is level. On a stationary platter with a record in position, place a small and light spirit bubble on the headshell (mine weighs 0.24g) and lower the arm on to the record, adjust VTA and azimuth till the headshell is level. On a pivoting arm I would then set the offset/VTF and recheck the VTA/Azimuth. Make a note of the number on the VTA as a reference to this level position, set your Phono loading and work up and down from there playing music to find what VTA sounds best in the system.

    I'm using a linear tracker at the moment, which has a very short arm, even 0.5mm change in VTA can make a big difference to the brightness and bass levels. I shared your thoughts about the 301 mkII laid back high's but after tweaking the VTA/Loading found a very satisfying combination.

  4. #134
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Bulgaria

    Posts: 48
    I'm Dimitar.

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    Well, actually I bring it back to 1.5g VTF. basically because I lost something else in the sound with 1.8g. Seems like whatever I do the treble sounds closed, and there is no way to open it. Unfortunately on my headshell there is no azimuth adjustment. AT MG-10

    I'll purchase Nagaoka MP-110 now, seems like the right choice for Technics stock tonearm.
    Thanks to all for the advices.

  5. #135
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mindarelus View Post
    Well, actually I bring it back to 1.5g VTF. basically because I lost something else in the sound with 1.8g. Seems like whatever I do the treble sounds closed, and there is no way to open it. Unfortunately on my headshell there is no azimuth adjustment. AT MG-10

    I'll purchase Nagaoka MP-110 now, seems like the right choice for Technics stock tonearm.
    Thanks to all for the advices.
    I must say I get quite a sweet treble from the 301 mk2 but it is not prominent. I use a K&K SUT which seems to work well although I have had good results with a head amp too.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  6. #136
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mindarelus View Post
    Well, actually I bring it back to 1.5g VTF. basically because I lost something else in the sound with 1.8g. Seems like whatever I do the treble sounds closed, and there is no way to open it. Unfortunately on my headshell there is no azimuth adjustment. AT MG-10

    I'll purchase Nagaoka MP-110 now, seems like the right choice for Technics stock tonearm.
    Thanks to all for the advices.
    I would still check the azimuth. In many plug in head shells there is a certain amount of play, so you can turn it one way or the other as you tighten the locking ring. The holder mounted in the arm can also be adjusted a little in the same way, by loosening the side fixing screw.

    I am surprised the VTA adjustment made no difference, my 301 could be made to sound either soft and woolly or bright and forward, and everything in between.
    But, if you are satisfied you have tried everything, and its not for you, I have to respect that, I hope the Nagaoka works for you, I would love to try an MP-500, but prices are creeping up.

  7. #137
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Bulgaria

    Posts: 48
    I'm Dimitar.

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    Maybe there is a preamp issue, but I tried 1KOhm, 330Ohms, 100Ohms, and best sound is somewhere in between 330 and 1000. I think my preamp is pretty good, so I doubt the problem is there - Ifi Iphono 2. All the reviews were excellent, and I can agree that with MM cartridges it is perfect. DL 301 MK2 is the only MC I tried.

    Now I decided to return to MM and I consider 3 very different cartridges - AT150SA, 2M Black and Nagaoka MP-500. And in order to decide I will take the low-class of each of them (2m red and nagaoka mp-110) because I guess the overall picture when going to high-end cartridges will stay the same, only details will get better.

    And for the Denon I will give it another try with Oyaide headshell, it's 2g heavier than AT MG-10, so maybe it will help.. We'll see..

  8. #138
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Bulgaria

    Posts: 48
    I'm Dimitar.

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    Btw I still do believe that Achromat is doing some high end suckout (10KHz to 16KHz actually because the top high end is there), but when I try the stock mat, it does suckout in the bass, but leave the top frequencies more open and natural. I compare both digital rips, with software in ways that you wouldn't believe + listening experience.

  9. #139
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    After a 6 month period of use of the 2M black I have decided to rest it for a while and use the Denon 301 mk2.

    Way back when I first started this post I was very enthusiastic about this cartridge and enjoyed it tremendously. Since I last used it however I have had a few changes under the bonnet as it were in my system so i am looking forward to hear how it integrates with the set up now. I also want to reappraise this cartridge and hope I have not judged it with rose tinted specs so I will write more about it in the coming weeks and contrast it with the 2M. I feel they are both very different cartridges which is a good thing as its nice sometimes to have a contrast. MC vs MM and Line contact (Denons own version) vs Shibata ( Ortofon). Warm and fat (Denon) vs powerful and analytical ( Ortofon).

    But which one really gives the best musically satisfying performance?
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  10. #140
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Lol... Not sure, Jim, that "warm and fat" is an apt description of a DL-301, although I know where you're coming from!

    Denon MCs, in general, simply have a bit more 'meat on the bone' than most of today's somewhat 'anaemic' offerings, in comparison, whose balance is tipped more towards the mid and top-end, although I'm not saying that the 2M Black comes under that category.

    In an case, I look forward to reading your findings in due course

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


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