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Thread: How can it be justifiable?

  1. #51
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: France

    Posts: 3,209
    I'm notAlone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    No problem. It can be justified because it might sound worse.

    I read an interesting review a few years ago about loudspeaker cables (I really can't remember where, I'm sorry). It was a totally objective measurement only review that compared cheap cables vs mega expensive wet string. The results were fascinating. A few of these mega expensive cables had atrociousness electrical properties which really would have altered the sound (for the worse) even in length of a few feet. Yet these expensive cables were very well thought of and recommended. How come?

    Well what I think is happening is this. Say a £50K speaker is bright, has a metallic sheen. The last thing you want is a neutral sounding, electrically perfect measuring speaker cable. Pair it instead with a dull £5K cable and suddenly the speaker sounds wonderful. The £5K cable is obviously good value for money because it's had a noticeable improvement in the sound. You could say that the £5k cable sounded fantastic!

    However, why is an expensive but excellently measuring cable better than a cheep but excellently measuring cable? Well maybe it isn't, but no-one will ever know because no-one will sit down to listen to a £50K speaker wired up with £100 of cable, let alone be brave enough to publish a review of it and say that the £100 cable sounded just as good if not better.

    There is also another effect at work. One that can only be counteracted by double blind testing. Most people who audition equipment will know in advance the rough cost, and how it looks, and be taken in by that. Our brains will tell us that the more expensive and good looking one will generally sound better, even though it may not. (A cable in your favourite colour will always sound better than one in a colour you don't like, especially if it's visible from your listening seat,e.g. snaking across the carpet).

    Also, no-one wants to look an idiot. Remember the Kings new suit? No-one in their right mind will ever announce to the world that a £100 speaker cable sounds better than a £5K one. Occasionally though you'll get someone brave enough to say 'well actually, I thought it sounded awful, but don't tell anyone I said that'. That's one thing I like about this forum. The people here aren't afraid to speak their minds.

    One thing all this does show though is how important system synergy is. Just because some piece of wire or equipment measures perfectly, it doesn't mean it'll sound good in a given system. It also shows how important blind testing is as it'll negate any psychological effects of price or looks.

    As for justifying the £12k cable, well a fool and his money are soon parted, so it makes sense to fleece him for as much as you can.
    Very true. The only "real problem" imho, is that the only 100% counteracting method to the "expensive is better" nonsense is an "all-leveling" one... So, we end up all alone with our own consciousness.
    Dimitri.

    In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
    George Orwell

  2. #52
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Elland

    Posts: 6,922
    I'm David.

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    Blimey kris, I can really see why you are drawn to this place!
    A guy in the shop the other day asked me if we had anything other than qed (sencible chap) I said we didn't but he should give mark grants cable a go! He asked me how much it was and when I told him is was less ££ than the qed he said "oh I'm looking for something better than that" ... ... ... There was literally no telling him that it could be better! There's no helping some people!
    CS Port TAT2 - Benz LPS - Funkfirm Houdini - DS Audio Vinyl Ionizer - CS Port C3EQ - Kondo G70 - Kondo Gakuoh II - Maxonic TW1100 MKII - Isol-8 SubStation Integra

  3. #53
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: http://www.homehifi.co.uk

    Posts: 6,288

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    It's a price thing Hamish. Having been in the manufacturing side of things, I am fully aware of the 1000% (Yes you read that right) type of mark up on some ready made cables from the time they leave the factory to the time they are sold over the counter.

    Where the uninformed buyer gets caught out is that cables that are made to spec or assembled locally in the UK are far cheaper than if they were done in the Far East and then shipped to the UK. So a cable made by Mark Grant or MIke Homar would always cost less than if that same cable was made in the Far East and then shipped to the UK. And that's because the Far Eastern cable is subjected to various manufacturing, administration, duties and transport costs. That cost is only reduced if one orders 1000 pieces in one go. A typical imported cable is only 10% material cost. 90% is all added cost.

  4. #54
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Twelve thousand pounds for a few wires wrapped up in an insulator and terminated with RCA jacks... I feel a Peter Belt moment on the horizon.

  5. #55
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,696
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Oh no not again!

  6. #56
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Dartmouth in beautiful Devon UK

    Posts: 1,243

    Wink

    Stan, it's often more than 1000% Honest!

    Dave

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