PC Media Players

[sastusbulbas]

Well I got sick of it all,

Bloody Apple and it's "new file definition update thingimy shite" iTunes media quadruple your files and hog the bandwidth player.

I have an up to 20mb connection which seemed to slow down to 1mb whenever iTunes was working.

I got sick of multiple music files appearing and album art dissapearing on Windows Media 11, and Media Monkey.

And also got sick of iTunes missing artwork which Media 11 had no problems finding, and every so often when updating or refusing an update for iTunes most of my music dissappeared. And having to upload the music folders for oter users on the PC, I ended up with two iTunes folders and my own Windows folder containing all the same music, though my iTunes would not show all my albums today after I refused the second update of the week.

As for MediaMonkey, well I got sick of that as well, incomplete album content, wrong and missing art work, and regardess of me trying to configure it to only read Flac and access my Flac folder, it having to import incomplete and other various bit rate albums from my music.

And VLC is just pathetic, with a Crap interface.

All I wanted was fancy album artwork to flick thru as iTunes, and an atractive reasonable quality Media player for 24bit Flac.

[Filterlab]

Buy an Apple computer then. It's no surprise that iTunes doesn't work on a PC - nothing does! The duplicate folder thing (again) is a PC only issue as PCs seem to have trouble changing address points when a file is moved, why I have no idea, it's a simple thing to program. My iTunes runs completely flawlessly, never had a moments issue with any element of it.

Stop kidding yourself that this is all a problem with the applications, put them on a decent platform (i.e. one that does runs each application in its own temporary RAM partition) and you'll be amazed at how well they work.

[sastusbulbas]

Duh ,

I have Mac's also (two MAC'sl and Two PC's at home, many MAC's at work), as I said though, Apple Media on my PC had it's own problems with missing artwork and dissappearing music and compatability.

As for a working platform? The problem WAS iTunes, IE if I remove iTunes and it's requirement for duplicate iTunes music folders, for me and my wife's user acounts, music on Media 11 gets it's art work back and does not have double or triple track listings.
And I do not get system slow down when iTunes is attempting to update and add art it cannot find.

I have multiple music folders on this old PC with multiple user accounts and Media player has no problem with this. Apple iTunes does, it requires folders to be added, creating extra folders which for some reason do not always stay as they should, today I found around 70% of my music had dissappeared from a folder I had added last week.
This apeared to happen after I clicked "no" on an newer version of iTunes update (I saw album and art disapear from the iTunes display).
iTunes had only upgraded to a newer version a week ago.

If I do not run Windows Media, I still have the same problems, IE iTunes stubborness and system hogging big brother act.

I must be running limited sofware and hardware too? As everything else works fine on this old PC (XP Pro), same cannot be said for the MAC upstairs of the same age.

Will probably again add codecs for Windows Media 11 to play Flac, and hope Windows doesn't delete them at the next update.

Like you have said before you find Mac's better, I like both Mac and PC for different things, I do not find Mac's better, I use both daily and prefer PC and the XP Pro operating system interface, and one can certainly put together a better specified PC for the same money. Operating systems are a different issue, with my two prefered OS's being XP Pro and Tiger, I am a little behind due to my not liking Vista or having a suitable Mac I deem worthy of Leopard.
I myself have not had compatability or hardware issues with PC and have happily upgraded this that and everything on the PC with no problems.
Never been able to do as much with MACs due to limited upgradeability.

As for operating systems and compatabilities, well I don't see many issues or failures, the PC runs fine with iTunes off, Media 11 has no problems with iTunes removed, I save space and do not have to remove 500 odd registry items again due to iTunes.
Personaly I see iTunes as the problem not the PC. Media Monkey and Winamp have no such issues as iTunes, and they do not need to create duplicate folders for music. And the PC has no problems with me swapping files from different folders and drives for my music.

My issue with Media Monkey was its refusal to only access my Flac folder, and its duplicate file issues due to iTunes. With iTunes removed Media Monkey sees no duplicate music tracks (but is still crap with album art). This was not a PC problem but software issue.
Instead of using Media Monkey I have configured Winamp for Flac only Folders with no issues.

VLC has no issues. (Just a poor interface)

So as far as I can deduce, Apple have not been able to produce a suitable media player version of iTunes for a PC platform. My PC was not the problem, Apple's software was.

I currently do not have any means of playing Flac media on my Macs (as all my Flac files are on PC at the moment), are you using 24 bit Flac files on your Mac?

[SteveW]

Ha...just goes to show, one should never assume anything and thankyou for the well presented analysis of your issues Sastusbulbas.
I have switched all our machines at home to Macs, but maily because all the software integrates so well and as a family we need a broad range of media software.
However...I really would like to play FLAC files on these machines. I'd also like Linn to have their digital media players to work on MACs...but there seems to be issues here in a PC dominated world.
I've ben having this discussion with a Linn dealer for months now, who is a big MAC fan...bit has discovered that the best software for ripping

here is a quote from him

....."Much as we both love Apple so far I've not heard as good as results from OS X ripping software (MAX) as from the PC ripping software (EAC). Unfortunately, the differences are audible. Whereas it can be shown that a downloaded WAV files sound better than their FLAC equivalents through MAX they same is not true if you use EAC on a PC...."

To get round the the problems of Linn kit (including the model which is being launched this week at a £grand).. one suggestion is to load Windows OS on to a MAC with Bootcamp, and use this. My old G4 won't be able to do this.
What I was hoping to do, is use an ipod touch to remote control itunes and play through my normal hi-fi system. Linn system is to link your PC/ hard drive NAS via network cable to a DS machine, and control this with a Nokia media player. It does sound awesome, especially the £10K Klimax DS !!
However, the new model (sneaky DS or something) is suppossubly better than the Majik CD player which in its own right is a great machine.

So...maybe my support of all things Apple isn't as strong today as it was a week ago

[Filterlab]

So as far as I can deduce, Apple have not been able to produce a suitable media player version of iTunes for a PC platform. My PC was not the problem, Apple's software was.

And yet oddly iTunes on my works PC runs without issue (aside from the usual PC disaster area of crashes, hang-up and that stupid daft egg timer).

I currently do not have any means of playing Flac media on my Macs (as all my Flac files are on PC at the moment), are you using 24 bit Flac files on your Mac?

Yes actually, from this weekend using pro audio software I am now ripping at 96Khz 24-bit.

[sastusbulbas]

And yet oddly iTunes on my works PC runs without issue (aside from the usual PC disaster area of crashes, hang-up and that stupid daft egg timer).

They all suck, wind up radio is the future! Maybe
My own problems were no actually that bad, nor did I put any effort into solving them. I have removed a lad of media players from the PC due to mediocre fits of diddle daddle that irritate for no reason other than being bored. And my Macs need to be dusted off and fitted with new hardware n stuff I guess.

Yes actually, from this weekend using pro audio software I am now ripping at 96Khz 24-bit.

So have you now got software that allows you to play Flac files directly through iTunes? What Pro Audio software are you using?

For some reason I just thought there was a limit on optic out capability? Must have been in the Co-ax or optic thread?

Steve

[Ashley James]

I can't see why anyone would want to play Flac files, what's wrong with AIFF or Lossless?

On the Pro Audio side all the high end work is done with Macs and everyone agrees that there Software is the best, so if this is the case, why would anyone want a Windows based system anywhere near the music. A fraction of our customers use PC's for theirs, yet all the issues have come from them and none from MAC.

We use Optical Digital for everything although it's just as easy to pop a coaxial socket in instead, but since we don't know what it might be connected to, we think Optical is wiser. When we first announced ADM9s, we had quite a few here with expensive CD Players, anxious that the internal DAC (it's the one in the £10K Linn Server) might not be as good on an Optical lead. None were better, most worse and one comparable. It's the same with our CD player, you can't hear a difference.

That was over a year ago, then visitors started to bring PMP's instead and more recently, they just bring memory sticks and we use iTunes and very occasionally VLC. Attitudes are changing and the technology is progressing. Hifidelio produced an excellent Music server, for a time it was the Lion's share of Hi Fi sales across European shops and then it stopped and they went bust, it was a passing fashion because people realised they were better off with a computer and Apple had exactly what they wanted.

I think that sometimes the simplest solutions are best.

If you read Sound On Sound there are four pages in each edition devoted to untangling Windows issues and none on Macs, which have the larger share of the business by a
country mile. I asked Paul White about it and he explained that there's loads of free Music software for PC's and therefore lots of cheapskates use them.

I'm sorry to labour this but why does anyone need a Music Server from a Hi Fi Company when NAS storage devices and any old PC under stairs will do it.

We're slowing switching to MAC's, I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro, I have an Apple TV in one room and Airport Express in others, and I have an iMac with a 700 Gig Hard Drive at work.

I can't believe that any software could be better or more user friendly than Front Row and iTunes and I love the fact that it incorporates Movies and Photos as well.

[sastusbulbas]

I can't see why anyone would want to play Flac files, what's wrong with AIFF or Lossless?

Hi Ashley,
Mainly due to very high quality free FLAC 24bit downloads being available.

On the Pro Audio side all the high end work is done with Macs and everyone agrees that there Software is the best, so if this is the case, why would anyone want a Windows based system anywhere near the music. A fraction of our customers use PC's for theirs, yet all the issues have come from them and none from MAC.

My own issues were as much stubborn set up and boredom, I myself have had just as many issues with MAC's as PC's. Thing is it is a lot easier for an incompetent to mess with a PC and get things wrong, MAC's are idiot friendly

We use Optical Digital for everything although it's just as easy to pop a coaxial socket in instead, but since we don't know what it might be connected to, we think Optical is wiser. When we first announced ADM9s, we had quite a few here with expensive CD Players, anxious that the internal DAC (it's the one in the £10K Linn Server) might not be as good on an Optical lead. None were better, most worse and one comparable. It's the same with our CD player, "you" can't hear a difference.

Debate and opinion mainly, computer/digital audio is I feel still developing, but has yet to be embraced properly. I personally am unaware of the £10k Linn being the be all and end of Digital replay.

That was over a year ago, then visitors started to bring PMP's instead and more recently, they just bring memory sticks and we use iTunes and very occasionally VLC. Attitudes are changing and the technology is progressing. Hifidelio produced an excellent Music server, for a time it was the Lion's share of Hi Fi sales across European shops and then it stopped and they went bust, it was a passing fashion because people realised they were better off with a computer and Apple had exactly what they wanted.

Maybe that should read "some" people realised "they" wanted. I personally did not find early solutions with MAC and PC or PMP to be better than red book CD replay. I also think CD replay devices took a back step at that time, and we had a slight shift in the consumer market and a new type of customer was born with the portable lifestyle product which Apple successfully recognised.
Though attitudes are changing and technology progressing in this new area for this consumer target.

I think that sometimes the simplest solutions are best.

I agree at times simplicity is very enticing.

If you read Sound On Sound there are four pages in each edition devoted to untangling Windows issues and none on Macs, which have the larger share of the business by a
country mile. I asked Paul White about it and he explained that there's loads of free Music software for PC's and therefore lots of cheapskates use them.

I think MAC's have only in recent years gained in popularity and numbers, and maybe there is something to be said for expensive limited amounts of upgradability and software ALA MAC.
Again reasons for problems with PC are as you just mentioned, overall they are far more popular and have far more software, far more free software, far more hardware configurations and many operating systems of dubious source, or neglected or interfered with.
Personally I think if we took every PC and counted every problem, correlated that with every MAC and every problem, took into account hardware availability and freeware issues, and did percentages. The problems would even out a little more than we probably expect.

I'm sorry to labour this but why does anyone need a Music Server from a Hi Fi Company when NAS storage devices and any old PC under stairs will do it.

Or any old MAC? I myself think they are trying to "sell" a new product, and address some issues standard computers have with operating systems and such having a slightly detrimental affect on sound, yet completely missing the point that everything apart from the media software which does bot have to rely on an OS is readily available for far less to any avid DIY computer constructor via internet and computer hardware stores. £170 buys you a 750 gig Media hardrive which you can load up via any computer and run through your TV and stereo. Pretty soon such things will be available with Touch type mobile handsets showing artwork etc.


We're slowing switching to MAC's, I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro, I have an Apple TV in one room and Airport Express in others, and I have an iMac with a 700 Gig Hard Drive at work.

Do you mean slowly? I myself would like a newer MAC and PC, (I have uses for both, and like to build simple things), I myself went back to PC when MAC could not do as I required, now use the PC less for that requirement, but still like both in different ways.

I can't believe that any software could be better or more user friendly than Front Row and iTunes and I love the fact that it incorporates Movies and Photos as well.

Again only recent developments which will hopefully develop even more, but again are only current lifestyle choices due to various OS limitations.

All only humble opinion of course, none of it matters as long as we get to see Jeremy Kyle on day time TV!

[lurcher]

Err, can someone remind me in terms of hardware what difference exists between a current Mac and a PC when it comes to using them as the source of a bit stream for music?

[Ashley James]

Macs are faster and easier to use, once you've got used to them. They use iTunes which is perfect for all your music and has a wonderful user interface. When you buy a Mac it comes with a pretty little IR handset and if you press its menu button, computer functions disappear and a Media program call Front Row replaces them. Then it's simply a process of scrolling through the menus for Movies, TV Programs, Podcasts, Photographs and you Music to pick what you want and play it.

Wi fi is always in a Mac and up to five rooms can be streamed to with Airport Express, Airport Extreme with Time Capsule automatically Backs up regularly, and you can also have an Apple TV to use with the TV. This stores Music and movies and can also be streamed to and it can access other people's Dot Mac Albums as well as your own and Flickr and other photo sites. It gets Youtube as well where there are many live concerts etc. If you want to play downloaded Flac, you use VLC and Airfoil which streams any player to Airport Express.

Most of the people who come to see us watch this demonstrated and buy a Mac as soon as they can.

Windows does it all too but it's a horrible slow stumbling muddle by comparison and PC's are ugly and noisy too.

Apple offer a fully integrated, nicely styled, user friendly system that an novice can set up himself and Windows are just an irritant by comparison. I believe all this has come about in the last year or two and is as a result of Steve Jobs visionary approach to home entertainment.

I'm gradually throwing out 2 year old Dells to install Macs.

Ash