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Thread: Philips GP390 Ceramic cartridge NOS 1970s

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,610
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Yes, and very nice it was, too

    Regarding the GP390, that's one long, heavy (and stiff) cantilever on there... Don't think I've ever seen anything like that before, which I suspect will be significantly influencing the sound, especially in terms of the lengthy run-in time, as the suspension will take a while to 'loosen up' and become more compliant.

    In terms of the current bright sound, Jerry, have you tried adding some mass to the headshell? I've got a feeling that these ceramics will like a big of mass, in the way of a DL-103, and I suspect that if you try that, perhaps by fitting the cartridge into a heavier headshell, it will tame the treble a bit...

    Just a thought!

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 8,621
    I'm Jerry.

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    OK - thanks for the tips, Marco.
    I'll have a play around with adding a bit of mass to the headshell.
    Jerry

    Main systems:
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC, Pure Sound L10 pre, Pass X150 power amp. Speakers: MBL 116F. Cryo Silver i/c & Western Electric 16GA spkr cables. ProJect and Nordost Magus power cables

    Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG 551, B&O H6, PSB M4U-1, B&O Form 2 & 2a and Sony XBA-H1 & SoundMagic E50 IEM headphones

    2nd system: Spotify Premium streaming / Pioneer DV-535, Audiolab MDAC, Black Cat power amp, Chario Syntar 100T speakers. Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, SoundMagic E10 IEM headphones

    3rd system: Portable CD player, Kinter MA-180 T amp, Klegg Symphony 102 speakers

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,610
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Cool - let us know how you get on...

    To save disturbing things too much, maybe try blu-tacking a 2p coin to the top of the headshell, just to see what happens, and if the result is favourable, keep adding more mass until the sound becomes 'thick and heavy', then back it off until the sound clicks into place, in terms of openness and bass weight. Then when you've arrived at the right amount of mass, measure it on some scales and then fit the cartridge to a headshell of the same mass (this obviously presumes the use of a detachable headshell arm).

    Another thing, what are you guys tracking the cartridge at? The quoted range is rather wide to say the least (1.5-3g). If it were me, I'd be using it at the top of that range, say 2.5g, and taking it from there. I suspect that this cartridge will prefer a higher VTF, to a lower one.

    Therefore, in summary, up the headshell mass and raise VTF, and see what happens!

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 8,621
    I'm Jerry.

    Default

    Yes, the old 2p + blu-tac on the headshell trick. That's what I was going to do.

    Sharif did mention tracking weight ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Audioflyer View Post
    Just another thing start the tracking at 1.7g and increase it by 0.1g and have a listen each time, I settled for a tracking weight of 2.1g.

    Sharif.
    I'm currently at 1.7g, which was Sharif's original reccie, I think.
    But I shall certainly experiment.
    Jerry

    Main systems:
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC, Pure Sound L10 pre, Pass X150 power amp. Speakers: MBL 116F. Cryo Silver i/c & Western Electric 16GA spkr cables. ProJect and Nordost Magus power cables

    Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG 551, B&O H6, PSB M4U-1, B&O Form 2 & 2a and Sony XBA-H1 & SoundMagic E50 IEM headphones

    2nd system: Spotify Premium streaming / Pioneer DV-535, Audiolab MDAC, Black Cat power amp, Chario Syntar 100T speakers. Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, SoundMagic E10 IEM headphones

    3rd system: Portable CD player, Kinter MA-180 T amp, Klegg Symphony 102 speakers

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,610
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    With VTF, Jerry, I always start near the top of the recommended range and work down, especially with carts fitted with a spherical stylus (such as the Philips), which are designed to take high VTFs, and usually respond well to them. With a nice fat tip like that, tracking at, say, 3g, you don't have to worry so much about record wear.

    So don't be afraid of going high! You may find that something around the 2-5-2.7g mark is spot on

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Nothamptonshire

    Posts: 144
    I'm Sharif.

    Default

    Hi Jerry

    My thorens TP90 arm mass is 17.5g, and the cartridge headshell is parallel to the record surface.

    The info I've found on a india electronics/audio web sites put out by Phillips is to set the tracking weight between 1.7 -2.5g

    Sharif.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,610
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Have you tried it at the higher end of the range, Sharif, at say 2.7g (it does say you can take it up to 3g)?

    Interestingly, your Thorens arm (if that figure is correct) seems to be heading more towards the high-mass end of things.

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 8,621
    I'm Jerry.

    Default

    My arm's effective mass is specced at 16g, but I am using a lightweight headshell at the moment.

    I'll have a play around with added mass and VTF this evening.

    For the moment, I've hoisted the VTF up to 2.5g.
    Jerry

    Main systems:
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC, Pure Sound L10 pre, Pass X150 power amp. Speakers: MBL 116F. Cryo Silver i/c & Western Electric 16GA spkr cables. ProJect and Nordost Magus power cables

    Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG 551, B&O H6, PSB M4U-1, B&O Form 2 & 2a and Sony XBA-H1 & SoundMagic E50 IEM headphones

    2nd system: Spotify Premium streaming / Pioneer DV-535, Audiolab MDAC, Black Cat power amp, Chario Syntar 100T speakers. Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, SoundMagic E10 IEM headphones

    3rd system: Portable CD player, Kinter MA-180 T amp, Klegg Symphony 102 speakers

  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 70,610
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Does it sound any better at 2.5g?

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 8,621
    I'm Jerry.

    Default

    errr ... not sure.

    A parcel arrived containing a new toy, Duncan's 300wpc Apart One amp.

    NEW TOY

    Will get back to the Philips ceramic business later

    Jerry

    Main systems:
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC, Pure Sound L10 pre, Pass X150 power amp. Speakers: MBL 116F. Cryo Silver i/c & Western Electric 16GA spkr cables. ProJect and Nordost Magus power cables

    Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG 551, B&O H6, PSB M4U-1, B&O Form 2 & 2a and Sony XBA-H1 & SoundMagic E50 IEM headphones

    2nd system: Spotify Premium streaming / Pioneer DV-535, Audiolab MDAC, Black Cat power amp, Chario Syntar 100T speakers. Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, SoundMagic E10 IEM headphones

    3rd system: Portable CD player, Kinter MA-180 T amp, Klegg Symphony 102 speakers

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