Bake off fever

[Gordon Steadman]

To be honest, I am not sure they were working at 100% or if it was because we had been listening to the Frugels beforehand. I really enjoyed the imaging and soundstage that they produced, but they seemed a little lacking at the top end.

No, they were working fine. Even Alan, who is used to the 57's said they sounded 'dark' when we first heard them after the Frugels. People who are used to er.....modern, bright sounding systems, often find the Quads dull, whereas to me, they sound natural and unforced. I found it a huge relief to get them back into the music room, connected to the Leak and get lost in the music at comfortable levels for me - probably ear splitting for others.

More anon, after Alan posts his report...in full.....with three part harmony etc etc. Come on Alan, you must be home by now

[CageyH]

They are very different to the Frugels.
To be honest, I think I needed more time with them - but that is my fault for leaving early!

[Oldpinkman]

To be honest, I am not sure they were working at 100% or if it was because we had been listening to the Frugels beforehand. I really enjoyed the imaging and soundstage that they produced, but they seemed a little lacking at the top end.

Electrostatics always sound dull (not bright) or lacking in treble to non-ES listeners. Actually they sound lacking in treble even to afficionados at times. But the treble is all there - its just that dry "cleanness". I'll bring a proper pair of electrostatics down soon - hopefully, one day, maybe...

[Gordon Steadman]

Electrostatics always sound dull (not bright) or lacking in treble to non-ES listeners. Actually they sound lacking in treble even to afficionados at times. But the treble is all there - its just that dry "cleanness". I'll bring a proper pair of electrostatics down soon - hopefully, one day, maybe...

Sorry Richard but you will have to bring your own. The 57s aren't leaving the house

[Marco]

All the 57s I've heard (and there have been a few) have never sounded 'dark' or dull. Like you say, in that area, including (and especially) the midrange, they sound realistic. It's at the other end (bass frequencies) whether they're lacking a little, compared with speakers capable of delivering genuinely (lifelike) deep bass, realistic scale and dynamics.

Also, Quad statics don't respond well to being played loudly. *Those* are their real limitations, not sounding dull, in my experience, unless the system they're connected to sounds dull. However, much depends on what type of music you listen to (and if you like listening to music loudly), in terms of whether the above limitations are indeed any kind of limitations at all!

Me? I'd rather have speakers that have less bass, but believable bass, than that produced by many of the 'pumped up' and exaggerated bright sounding 'boom boxes' produced today!

Marco.

[Firebottle]

More anon, after Alan posts his report...in full.....with three part harmony etc etc. Come on Alan, you must be home by now

Called in at other friends on the way back and now just recording last weeks Paul Jones show on the computer at the moment (it was a belter) so report to follow.
Had a lovely PM from Kevin saying how much he enjoyed it, 'twas a great day.

Have patience......................

[CageyH]

I have been chatting to Steve at Electric Beach about my findings following the Bake Off.
It seems that you have not heard the FH3s at their best, as I had removed some stuffing from the wrong part of the speaker so they were a bit bright.
Stuffing back in, and "much more better enough" as they say in the SW.

When is "Bake Off 2" happening???

[Firebottle]

So you all now know the bake off was held at Gordon's gaff, and excellent bonhomie was enjoyed.

It is sort of half way for me and Kevin (a bit further for Kevin) but it was good to meet up and play with lots of kit

As you have seen two complete setups were on offer, albeit with Gordon's 57's rather than mine, but all grist to the mill. I thought I would take copious notes as there wasn't a snowballs chance of me remembering all the combinations

Firstly all the kit was taken up to Gordon's big room, it would have been a right royal squash if we had tried it in the music room. An early picture of the kit before all the mains supplies had been installed:



As Kevin has said we started with his system, I for one was very keen to hear the Frugel FH3's, having read and heard about them on various web sites.
The set-up was
Technics SL1200 (much modified)/FX 1200 Funk arm/2M Black MM cart,
-> Graham Slee Reflex M -> Project Pre-Box RS -> Graham Slee Proprius Mono Blocks -> Electric Beach Frugel 3

All MC5000 interconnects, a first for me, but a good one.



My first impression was fantastic clarity and focus, but slightly different overall feelings later on.
Anyway the music enjoyed through the system was all on vinyl:

Rodrigo y Gabriela, side 2 (new artists to Gordon)
Ron Carter - Yellow and Green (can't recall which side)
Tracy Chapman - Crossroads. Such a distinctive voice and not diluted in ant way by the equipment set-up.

Next came a change around to
Technics SL1200 (much modified)/FX 1200 Funk arm/2M Black MM cart,
-> Firebottle KIN pre -> Fierbottle AIR power amp -> Electric Beach Frugel 3

Now the impression was lots more low end 'heft' and a bit of disbelief that this sound was coming from a 4 inch (?) driver.
The thing that struck me was a real 'cohesiveness' to the sound stage, just a fantastic integration of the full spectrum, I'm sure the real plus points of using a full range single driver

In retrospect the Graham Slee Proprius Mono Blocks seemed somewhat bight in comparison to the Firebottle AIR's grip of the speakers, particularly the lower registers.

We then tried the same set-up into Gordon's 'Bitza' speakers, made up from a motley collection of drive units and tuned by ear by Gordon.



A lot more low end, but rather expected given that the Bitzas have a 12 inch woofer.
Another quick change to the OuTLaw OTL power amp driving the Bitzas.

A bit of loss of bass extension and control but lovely clear mid and top registers.
Unfortunately curtailed on listening due to a dry joint on one of the crossovers but further listening was done on the Sunday.


Another kit re-arrangement now, swapping over to the other TT.

Goldring Lenco GL75/Acutex 312
-> Firebottle KIN pre -> Graham Slee Proprius Mono Blocks -> Electric Beach Frugel 3



Now this sounded somewhat bright, we swapped over to the AIR power amp and immediately to my mind there was more image depth/slam and bass control.
Music played in this session was:

Paul Simon - Graceland, a fantastic album only helped along by the impressive production.
Stan Getz - Girl from Ipanema. Sublime sax sound

Had another quick swap around back to the Technics front end. Music played was:

George Ezra - Wanted on Voyage
It was very bright on the first few tracks, I think down to the somewhat clinical presentation of the Technics and 2M Black and the brightnes of the Graham Slee monoblocks, all IMHO of course.
We then made a comparison between the Firebottle KIN phono section and the Reflex M phono stage into a line input on the KIN.

The consensus was a slightly bassier sound with the Reflex M and a slightly more open sound with the KIN stage.
Dire Straight - Communique was the music of choice for this session.

We then tried the output of the Reflex M directly into the Firebottle AIR power amp.

[Just a small aside, the first AIR power amp has been assembled with an input level control. This is going to be changed to a simple mute switch]

Very acceptable performance, to me just losing a smidgen of 'air' around the instruments.


Now for a big change of front end, to a CD player.



Equipment line up:
Marantz CD63SI -> Firebottle KIN pre -> Fierbottle AIR power amp -> Electric Beach Frugel 3

Music played
Sade - Soldier of Love, one of my favourite tracks, well received by Kevin.
Bonnie Rait - Love me like a man, another of my favourites.
Paganini -Allegro con brio
Muse - Madness. Oops we overdid the volume a little and the FH3's were hitting their stops

FH3's in motion:


Very very acceptable sound stage and overall musicality, I'm definitely saying I could live with these FH3's, beautiful finish as well

We then tried the OuTLaw OTL into the Frugels to give Kevin a flavour of valve OTL performance.
Peter Gabriel - Hit was the album spinning for this.

Lacked a bit of low end heft and drive compared to the solid state AIR, but really to be expected given the differences in technologies.

Gordons ESL57's were then brought up into the big room and tried firstly with the OuTLaw OTL and then the AIR power amp.



As stated earlier in the thread after the Frugels the 57's appeared a bit down on the upper registers.

For me when the AIR was substituted there was more space/clarity/depth to the sound.
Music played for this session was

Mahavishnu Orchestra - You know you know,
Charlie Byrd - The guitar artistry of .. ( brilliant )


I'm definately a convert to MC5000 interconects
I'll add in the brief Sunday morning session later..........

Great stuff

[Firebottle]

I have been chatting to Steve at Electric Beach about my findings following the Bake Off.
It seems that you have not heard the FH3s at their best, as I had removed some stuffing from the wrong part of the speaker so they were a bit bright.
Stuffing back in, and "much more better enough" as they say in the SW.

When is "Bake Off 2" happening???

Now that is interesting Kevin, even better

[CageyH]

It was a great day out for me.
The highlight being the AIR power amp. An impressive piece of kit.
"Bake Off 2" needs to happen to see what my Pre does with this into the Frugels.