Live recording

[ff1d1l]

You might want to try Pzm's - recording live bands, they have the advantage that the balance sounds more like close mic'd, with solidity, bass and dynamics that often eludes more distantly placed mics. This slightly at the expense of soundstage and image specificity.

Also, compression, reverbs and fades and indeed edits can be done to a pro level in Audacity, a free sound editing program. I know there's huge prejudice in the audio community against compression, but a little is often a good thing, tidying up the sound without affecting transparency - if you haven't tried applying a little as an experiment, you certainly should. Stuff sounds more together and pro with a little soft compression.
It doesn't have to sound like loudness wars...

[mikmas]

As an aside, here's an interesting paragraph from that about what "stereo" means - it has nothing to do with 2 of anything!



So the use of "stereo" relating to anything other than sound is meaningless from a literal point of view.

Not at all - in fact the word stereo should not really be applied to sound at all, except in the sense of creating the illusion of having 3D characteristics ... or purely metaphorically (as in a 'solid' sound)

[Barry]

As an aside, here's an interesting paragraph from that about what "stereo" means - it has nothing to do with 2 of anything!



So the use of "stereo" relating to anything other than sound is meaningless from a literal point of view.

What about stereoscopic? We have two eyes, to give us stereoscopic vision and allow us to judge distance.

[mikmas]

What about stereoscopic? We have two eyes, to give us stereoscopic vision and allow us to judge distance.

Exactly ..... although again this is bound by the physical equipment we have to perceive the solidity or 3 dimensional properties of things (we tend to have two of such things...)

[struth]

Used to have a stereoscope

[dave2010]

The shaggy story continues ....

Part 2: Preparation

Having borrowed the Zoom Q2 HD, I first checked that it could do playback. I noticed that the SDHC card already had a recording on it, so I was wary about using the same card. I bought a new one – high speed 32 Gbyte 90 Mb/s 600x from Transcend which I thought would do the job. This was faster than the original supplied, which was only 30 Mb/s 200x also from Transcend, so hopefully would avoid problems.

I checked out the recording which came on the supplied card using VideoSpec - http://videospec.free.fr/english/. The video was 720P (1280*720) and the audio was 192kbps aac. In fairness it sounded OK, but I thought it would be probably be better to use one of the PCM modes.

I also checked my camera tripod, and discovered that I'd “put aside” a vital part, the mount that fixes the camera on. I thought I'd need that. I hoped I'd find it, and even wondered about buying another tripod. This was months in advance.

Eventually, a few days before the recording I checked the manual for the Zoom – which is online -
https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default...de_English.pdf
and I decided to test it out. It can run on batteries, so I thought that I'd test it using rechargeables, to see how long it would run on what I hoped would be fully charged batteries. The results, gathered over a few days, were variable. Some batteries seemed to run down more quickly than others. The best ones might run for over an hour, while some might only work for about 30 minutes. It's not an exact science either, as it's hard to work out whether batteries are fully charged, and I was unsure as to whether it was better to charge the batteries up slowly, or to use a fast charger.

Looking at the programme for the concert, I checked the timing of the pieces, and the longest appeared to be about 30 minutes, so I thought that it would be possible to record using several sets of batteries, with quick changes between pieces.

I also considered using a mains power supply, though I was wary of this as I wondered if that would introduce noise into the recording. The Zoom manual mentions a particular PSU, though I suspect that it's just a fairly standard 5.1 V USB supply. I didn't know whether that exact PSU was available, so in the end I decided not to try – just in case something went wrong. I did try posting on various boards to see if anyone knew whether a generic supply would do, but I didn't get any useful responses in time. After all, the Zoom is not my equipment, and will be returned to the owner.

I also experimented with the audio settings on the device. It will record up to 24 bits at 96 kHz in PCM, so I tried that, and I also set the video to the highest standard of HD. I didn't notice whether the unit took more power on some settings than others, though it may do. Somewhat annoyingly, it forgets the day and time very quickly when the batteries are taken out. I also discovered that sometimes if the batteries run out, then at least the last recording may be lost, and in the worst case the whole memory card can be wiped clean. This could spell out potential disaster in the recording stage. I was very anxious to avoid that occurrence on the day.

I also discovered how to zoom in and out, for the video recording, though I did not particularly expect to have to do that.

One particular concern was the level setting for the audio. I did not want to use Auto Gain, as I thought that would lead to unwanted effects, so I set it to manual. I tried to test this by playing CDs in my living room, and recording from the other end of the room. With what I thought was a loud level of music (mostly string quartets) I never succeeded in overloading the microphone, so I set it up to manual, with the level set at 10. I thought I would have problems in getting a strong input from the intended location in the church.

One setting option during recording was a noise reduction option. As I noticed some noise during my tests I decided to use that setting – though at the time I was unsure that it was particularly effective. I did hope that I could reduce some noise later on using Audacity, which sometimes works, though I wasn't too optimistic having made a trial run.

To be continued …..

[dave2010]

Part 3 Preparation – Backup Plans and familiarisation

Having spent days testing out the Zoom, and establishing a need for a lot of fully charged batteries, I then turned to what was now a backup plan. Years ago I bought a Hi-MD Minidisc recorder- Sony MZ-RH910 Hi-MD. Actually, as the first one, bought as a present, seemed to have submerged in a mass of other stuff in the house, and has never resurfaced, or been otherwise lost by mrs d, I bought another one which I have barely used -Sony MZ-RH1B. The original intention for the first of these devices was to use it for recording interviews, though in fact it was never used for that purpose. A few years ago I also bought some cheap Minidisc NetMD recorders from eBay, and quite a large quantity of regular Minidiscs. Obviously these devices are now completely out of date, and there should be much better recording devices available. However, I have noted that recordings made on the Hi-MD machine are in fact very good.

Unfortunately Sony never quite managed to get the issues with DRM and their software sorted out. Clearly they were more interested in stopping people from recording from commercial recordings than enabling people to make their own live recordings. The software supplied by Sony SonicStage was Windows only, which was not a great problem for me at the time, though some of the DRM issues were. Eventually Sony appeared to give up on the DRM things, though some problems still remained. Ideally one would wish to upload the contents of recorded MDs much faster than in real time, but sometimes the only option was/is to do it in real time. Thus a one hour MD would take an hour to upload. As a deterrent against people making illicit copies this was arguably a good thing, but for material which was recorded by the end user this was very unreasonable. Things got worse for some people who even found that they could not recover their own material, for example if they had a recorder which got lost or damaged, and they could not replay their own discs

I had also bought a Sony microphone – ECM-MS907 to go with the other MD kit.

As with the Zoom, I tried to make several test recordings in my living room, just to see if the levels could be set appropriately. I found the use of the MZ-RH1B a bit clunky, and as I'd never really used it in anger I found the small control unit in the cable fiddly and difficult to use.A major failing is the use of a very small and not terribly easy to read display. It took me a while to figure out how it all worked, and some serious reading of the manual. Also, I tried the microphone out in its two modes – with 90 degrees and 120 degree audio, though I couldn't decide which I should use for the final recording. Looking at the specs this microphone has a claimed frequency response from 100 Hz – 15kHz, though whether there is any output below or above those frequencies is not clear. There probably is some – particularly below 100 Hz, but presumably the output is somewhat attenuated. For frequencies above 15 kHz it's probably not worth worrying too much, as they are at the upper (or outer) ranges of human hearing. As with the Zoom, keeping the battery charged up seemed to be an issue – though the battery is internal to the device.

I made some test recordings using HiMD discs, and then reformatted some of the second hand ones I'd picked up from eBay. Inititally of course, as is the way of these things, I managed to record silence, and then noise. It took me several sessions over a few days of reading the manual, and trying to make this kit work before I became moderately competent at making recordings. I could barely imagine how or why Sony had made such a terrible interface, though the results seemed good enough.

I also tested out a couple of the cheaper NetMD devices, which take standard AA type batteries.

My original intention was to use the HiMD machine using HiMD formatted discs, but I discovered that for most practical purposes that the best of the ATRAC compressed settings would probably be good enough, and would enable me to use some of the pre-used and reformatted discs.

There is an old joke about seeking directions – sometimes put in an ethnic context. Basically “How do I get to X from here?” “Well, if I were you, I wouldn't start from here, but from Z you would go …. etc.”

Using the MD kit was like that too. Nobody should use kit like that nowadays, but sometimes kit is available, and provides the only way to do a job without buying newer stuff, and learning how to use it.

Unfortunately also, very few people really want equipment to make their own recordings, so it's difficult to know what would be the best kind of equipment for anyone trying this to buy right now in 2015. Manufacturers supplying appropriate devices seem to be Zoom, Tascam and Roland. Other manufacturers, such as Sony, have equipment which might be considered professional, or semi-professional. I have seen some very good equipment from Sony used to make live recordings – at the time that was in Newport Rhode Island, and the equipment cost then (about 8 years ago) was about $500 I was told. I think similar equipment is still available – perhaps costing around £500 in the UK.

A cheap option for anyone with an old iPod Touch might be to buy one of the Tascam microphone recorders – Tascam-iM2 which are currently around £22 from Amazon – though I've no idea how good that is. Tascam also do more expensive digital recorders. I might even try one of those myself for the future.

Other backup plan options.

I had seen iPads used to make video recordings, as already mentioned. I have a first generation iPad, which does not have this capability. I had almost promised myself to buy the next iPad model to replace my current one, but this is now going to be the iPad Pro, for release in November. Whether I will actually buy one is yet to be seen, but as the release date is still ahead in time, and the recordings were actually made a few weeks ago, that was not, as it happened, a feasible plan.

With hindsight – more on that later – having backup plans was definitely a good idea. The intention was that if something went wrong with the video recording device that there's still be an audio recording, and vice versa. Also, with multiple recordings, a final “product” - either audio or video, could be put together from the material captured, though that would require more work.

To be continued …..

[Rothchild]

There's plenty of equipment for folk who want to make their own recordings, but yes, there's fewer 'single box' solutions - there are still a number of portastudio type products: http://tascam-ca.com/product/dp-24sd/

I reckon lots of folk will use a laptop and separate soundcard though.

[dave2010]

There's plenty of equipment for folk who want to make their own recordings, but yes, there's fewer 'single box' solutions - there are still a number of portastudio type products: http://tascam-ca.com/product/dp-24sd/

I reckon lots of folk will use a laptop and separate soundcard though.

Fair points, though a lot will depend on the requirements. For a studio environment (home studio?) using a laptop, or even a desktop machine could be a good idea. For recording live in public spaces where the basic event is a concert, with interested parties being the paying public, the event orgamisers and the musicians then there can be other constraints, and small but also easy to use kit may be desirable. What may also become more available would be remote controlled devices, to avoid/reduce the need for wires, which can often present hazards.

A small recorder, perhaps about the size of an older MD recorder plus microphone, might be placed on a platform, and set up to record. Zoom and Tascam devices may well be small enough. That wouldn't require wires necessarily, but the musicians need to agree, and neither they, nor the public, should move or interfere. Sometimes the musicians themselves are making the recordings, and some are technically savvy, so they have a vested interest in not ruining a recording, though often they are only recording for future rehearsals, and to inform themselves how things went, rather than making a recording for commercial release or posterity.

Managing people can be a significant part of making a live recording - more on that later.

[Rothchild]

Rehursal recording of me is a 2 channel usb soundcard in to a laptop - normally an omni mic in the room and a cardioid on the vocalist.

Beyond that, as you've found, the complication scales exponentially

My 'portable' (aka luggable) rig consists a small flight case with 2 x8 channel mic pre's feeding 2 x8 channel sound card interfaces and an 8 way headphone amplifier, an old Compaq P4 computer (one of the ones that used to be used in stores as point of sale registers) and all the cable looms that plug it together (which stay in situ).

EDIT: Of course the computer entails that I also pack a keyboard & Mouse, Monitor and all requisite cables too...

This then entails that I also have: a case with 16 microphones in it (a selection) 16 mic cables, 8 pairs of headphones + headphone extender cables and a bunch of mic stands. Often I'll just monitor on cans but if there's room left in the car I'll also throw in a pair of powered monitors (and the appropriate cabling for them) too. I'll also travel with a couple of DI boxes just in case.

Indeed, even with the portastudio solution, you still need mics, stands, cables, cans etc - the adverts they push out with just a single tidy looking box 'capture the sound in your head' nonsense is quite disingenuous when you realise how much clobber you actually have to lug about to make it work.

The serious pro rigs will have a computer in a flight case rack or something like an Otari Radar recorder

Given the conditions you've set about it primarily being a concert (not a recording) it seems that the best investment you could make would be in a really long loom / snake so you can set up the recording station well away from the players and the audience (may even give you chance to set up proper monitoring and hear what you're capturing).