To Garrard 301/401 or Thorens TD124mk 2, that is the question ?

[Spectral Morn]

I have an itch, a Garrard or Thorens shaped one but I am unsure whether to scratch it or not.

My existing main vinyl playback is via an SME Model 20/Graham Phantom tonearm or a recently upgraded Oracle Delphi turntable, now a mk 4/5/6 upon which an SME 5 tonearm is to be found. My ongoing Technics experiments also continue - though they are coming to an end - via a couple of 1200/1210s with all the usual suspects re arms, PSUs, bearings platters etc. I have a Triplanar mk 7 Ultimate tonearm still to be used which I thought about fitting to the Delphi (have a suitable armboard) and currently have fitted to a Technics 1210 turntable (not tried yet), so that arm could be tried on an idler.

So the question is, and I would propose to use modern arms not vintage, nor vintage carts, is it worthwhile giving an idler in the shape of those mentioned ago ? I would want equals in performance to my belter/direct drive, so if the general feeling is they won't be better or as good then its an itch I won't scratch.

There are plenty of options re used Garrards at the minute - I prefer the look of the 401 over the 301 - and a few Thorens TD124 mk 2s (love the look) but to do this will cost and I am concerned I might be wasting money by trying and then trying to resell so I would prefer to go into this sure I am not going to - well as sure as one can be. A nice used example would be the thought rather than a Audio Grail unit but servicing seems to bring the cost up to a Grail one pretty much. Any thoughts on that ?

One concern is I recently heard an Inspire Enigma turntable and I didn't like the way it did bass, is this an idler issue affecting them all or just turntables based on Lencos ? It was too strong and too driving in my system.

I like the look of these plinths http://www.oldroadaudio.com/product/...or-garrard-401 but not with the Thorens.

Curious what folks think.


Regards Neil

[Jimbo]

My Lenco certainly does not overdo the bass but it has not been fashionably replinthed. I am beginning to think it is better than my VPI so like you Neil It has got me thinking what if. My conclusion would be ultimately a Garrard 401 in a slate plinth with top flight arm and cartridge.

Not a cheap option but in the long term probably compares with the very best vinyl replay systems available. I would go for a A. Grail sorted 401.

Now which tonearm and cartridge?

[The Black Adder]

I can't say anything about the 301 but my TD124 is lovely. They do need some tlc but once you have the motor and the suppressor done the rest is pretty easy.

I have heard a 301 and I really couldn't make a definite decision to how different both decks are from each other.

My 124 hasn't missed a beat since it came back from Schopper and it runs silently as anything.

If you can't get to listen to them side by side, go with your heart.

As for re-sale?... I think they are on a par with each other to be honest. They both hold their prices.

There is some people on here who can refurb a 124 so I suggest you do that as Schopper are expensive.

Any questions, let me know

[Spectral Morn]

My Lenco certainly does not overdo the bass but it has not been fashionably replinthed. I am beginning to think it is better than my VPI so like you Neil It has got me thinking what if. My conclusion would be ultimately a Garrard 401 in a slate plinth with top flight arm and cartridge.

Not a cheap option but in the long term probably compares with the very best vinyl replay systems available. I would go for a A. Grail sorted 401.

Now which and cartridge?

If money was no option, but I want to do this - if I do this - on the cleapish side but if I like it and then feel I should have gone for a Grail one then it means selling and rebuying and I really can't be bothered doing that - as selling anything at the minute is a struggle.

I had never heard an idler before anywhere and this was a first listen. The deck needed speed re setting - easy enough to do and it wasn't level in its plinth again easy to do. I thought the mid and trebble nice and soundstaging was good but the music was underpined with a very strong bass which almost was detached from the mid and trebble, and felt wrong to me. The reason I ask is that my understanding is idlers do sound different to belt or direct drive in this particular area - so what I was hearing might just be how they are.


Regards Neil

[Spectral Morn]

I can't say anything about the 301 but my TD124 is lovely. They do need some tlc but once you have the motor and the suppressor done the rest is pretty easy.

I have heard a 301 and I really couldn't make a definite decision to how different both decks are from each other.

My 124 hasn't missed a beat since it came back from Schopper and it runs silently as anything.

If you can't get to listen to them side by side, go with your heart.

As for re-sale?... I think they are on a par with each other to be honest. They both hold their prices.

There is some people on here who can refurb a 124 so I suggest you do that as Schopper are expensive.

Any questions, let me know

Someone I know quiet well had one to sell a few years ago with a Schopper plinth and frankly my ignorance of such matters mean't I offered him a bit less than it was worth and he sold it to someone else who offered more..... I regret that (love the look of that combination) but I hate this messing around, tell me what you want and I will say yes or no.

That is the other thing that bothers me is that idlers seem to need more tlc and aftercare than belters or DDs. That does put me off a little, if that is true.


Regards Neil

[The Black Adder]

Someone I know quiet well had one to sell a few years ago with a Schopper plinth and frankly my ignorance of such matters mean't I offered him a bit less than it was worth and he sold it to someone else who offered more..... I regret that (love the look of that combination) but I hate this messing around, tell me what you want and I will say yes or no.

That is the other thing that bothers me is that idlers seem to need more tlc and aftercare than belters or DDs. That does put me off a little, if that is true.


Regards Neil

Only the people with no clue say that, it's utter B@llocks... The TD124 is sooooo easy to maintain. Every 18 months, just a few drops of oil on the main spindle and if you want, replace the belt but not always necessary.

Since it's refurb in 2010, I've replaced the belt once and that was only me being my caring self.

[walpurgis]

Having owned the 401, a white 301 and a silver 301, I'd sooner have another Lenco G88 or G99. The L75/78 is very similar mechanically.

[The Black Adder]

Indeed, the G88 is a top deck.

[Spectral Morn]

Having owned the 401, a white 301 and a silver 301, I'd sooner have another Lenco G88 or G99. The L75/78 is very similar mechanically.

Care to put more meat onto why?

Regards Neil

[Spectral Morn]

Only the people with no clue say that, it's utter B@llocks... The TD124 is sooooo easy to maintain. Every 18 months, just a few drops of oil on the main spindle and if you want, replace the belt but not always necessary.

Since it's refurb in 2010, I've replaced the belt once and that was only me being my caring self.

Fair enough Josie, its a perception based on reading about this. In all my years in audio retail I never came across an idler, not once. I know my way round most types and makes of belter and more recently DDs but idlers zip until I heard the Enigma.


Regards Neil