Dane's Hi-Fi

[RobbieGong]

Thanks

Yes the 2 M Black needs some attention to set up. I had read about it being fussy, so I took my time (about an hour) and got it right the first time. It really pays off to be patient with the set up.

Absolutely ! 1hr ? lucky you I've spent weeks, sometimes months on and off setting up that cart, believe you me

[Dane]

Maybe you have been too critical about your 2 M Black ? I've never been too technical about setting up my new cartridges. I've have always used the thin cardboard protractor that came with the TT. My TT's have always been on a shelf and in 100 % level. I start out by loosely mount the cartridge with the screws and set the tonearm floating, dial the counterweight to the recommended tracking force by the numbers on the arm. Then I start with the setup by the proactor. Find where the stylus tip sits on the + on the proactor and the cartridge body follow the lines, again roughly done. Then I tighten the screws just enough to still be able to move the cartridge with a gentle touch with my finger tip. Now I spend the time on gently poking the cartridge a fraction of a millimeter here and there. Looking from all sides with both eyes, one eye closed the other eye closed. When I think it's there, I check with a magnifying glass the see if the stylus tip actually is exactly on the + and if there's more space between the cartridge body and the proactor line on one side than the other. I certainly don't have steady hands like a surgeon, so it's not easy to move the cartridge just a fraction. It's a case of trial and error, but suddenly it's there. Then I start tighten the screws slowly. Tighten a wee bit, the check on the proactor if the cartridge have been moved: Magnifying glass/ eyes/ one eye/ looking from all sides. Tighten a wee bit again and repeat with the proactor / magnifying glass etc. After a while the screws are tightened and the cartridge are checked one last time on the proactor method as before. If all is good, I put on a record without spinning and lover the cartridge on the record. Then I take a short leveler tool and place it on the plinth next to the tonearm. Looking to see if the bubble are in the middle (it always is, since my shelf / TT is in level) then looking very carefully if the tonearm is following the leveler tool. It always have on my TT's so no VTA altering necessary. When all is good, I set the tonearm floating, dial to zero by the numbers on the counterweight. Then is time for..da daa! The Shure SFG-2 - stylus force gauge to take action! Uuh! I start with the recommended tracking force and listen to some well known albums with high pitch tones like vibraphone and female singers who go really high on the C note, some albums with heavy bass and so on. I listen to music from the inner and outer groove (first and last track on a side) And listen closely for any distortion (off cause, distortion is relative depending on the quality of the TT) If there's a hint of distortion, I try with the anti skating until it sounds clean on inner and outer tracks. I my case I have a weight on a string with three settings and the middle always works for me. Now it's only a matter of listen to some music for some days to hear if the tracking force is best on the recommended or need a bit more. In the case of the 2 M Black, I found the sound on 1,5 grams too light footed. So I went for the max at 1,7 grams, which was too grainy and turned it back a wee bit and listened again. After a couple of days it ended on 1,6 grams and sound fine there.
So you see, I do not have test records, fancy aftermarket proactors or NASA equipment. Just a cardboard with some lines and a + printed on, a little screwdriver, leveler tool, magnifying glass, my eyes and not so steady hands. But most important, I'm very patient I think the most important about setting up a turntable is: If it sounds good, it is good. Mine do but maybe it would not handle a test record well, I don't know and it really doesn't matter. It's no science to set up a cartridge...just a pain

[Us-&-Them]

That's one seriously nice set-up you've got there !! EXCELLENT

[Dane]

Thank's

[RobbieGong]

Maybe you have been too critical about your 2 M Black ? I've never been too technical about setting up my new cartridges. I've have always used the thin cardboard protractor that came with the TT. My TT's have always been on a shelf and in 100 % level. I start out by loosely mount the cartridge with the screws and set the tonearm floating, dial the counterweight to the recommended tracking force by the numbers on the arm. Then I start with the setup by the proactor. Find where the stylus tip sits on the + on the proactor and the cartridge body follow the lines, again roughly done. Then I tighten the screws just enough to still be able to move the cartridge with a gentle touch with my finger tip. Now I spend the time on gently poking the cartridge a fraction of a millimeter here and there. Looking from all sides with both eyes, one eye closed the other eye closed. When I think it's there, I check with a magnifying glass the see if the stylus tip actually is exactly on the + and if there's more space between the cartridge body and the proactor line on one side than the other. I certainly don't have steady hands like a surgeon, so it's not easy to move the cartridge just a fraction. It's a case of trial and error, but suddenly it's there. Then I start tighten the screws slowly. Tighten a wee bit, the check on the proactor if the cartridge have been moved: Magnifying glass/ eyes/ one eye/ looking from all sides. Tighten a wee bit again and repeat with the proactor / magnifying glass etc. After a while the screws are tightened and the cartridge are checked one last time on the proactor method as before. If all is good, I put on a record without spinning and lover the cartridge on the record. Then I take a short leveler tool and place it on the plinth next to the tonearm. Looking to see if the bubble are in the middle (it always is, since my shelf / TT is in level) then looking very carefully if the tonearm is following the leveler tool. It always have on my TT's so no VTA altering necessary. When all is good, I set the tonearm floating, dial to zero by the numbers on the counterweight. Then is time for..da daa! The Shure SFG-2 - stylus force gauge to take action! Uuh! I start with the recommended tracking force and listen to some well known albums with high pitch tones like vibraphone and female singers who go really high on the C note, some albums with heavy bass and so on. I listen to music from the inner and outer groove (first and last track on a side) And listen closely for any distortion (off cause, distortion is relative depending on the quality of the TT) If there's a hint of distortion, I try with the anti skating until it sounds clean on inner and outer tracks. I my case I have a weight on a string with three settings and the middle always works for me. Now it's only a matter of listen to some music for some days to hear if the tracking force is best on the recommended or need a bit more. In the case of the 2 M Black, I found the sound on 1,5 grams too light footed. So I went for the max at 1,7 grams, which was too grainy and turned it back a wee bit and listened again. After a couple of days it ended on 1,6 grams and sound fine there.
So you see, I do not have test records, fancy aftermarket proactors or NASA equipment. Just a cardboard with some lines and a + printed on, a little screwdriver, leveler tool, magnifying glass, my eyes and not so steady hands. But most important, I'm very patient I think the most important about setting up a turntable is: If it sounds good, it is good. Mine do but maybe it would not handle a test record well, I don't know and it really doesn't matter. It's no science to set up a cartridge...just a pain

I hear you Dane, i've been in the game a long time. I too have never adopted a scientifically clever or overly technical approach. That said I'm a huge advocate of the importance and benefits of careful, patient set up over all the usual parameters / stages, always using my ears / sound as the ultimate decider. Whilst i've had the Black sounding awesome, this has occurred AFTER thinking it was great and at it's best, then having to go there again for one reason or the other- been there done that.
Other factors may well come into play too, deck, arm etc - no one size fits all in this game. Another member here used the word 'magical' to describe this cart BUT also expressed his frustration whenever he had to re-visit set up. In the end he moved on to another high end MM - The Audio Note IQ3. Whilst reading some stuf recently, on the internet about alignment I came across a post and guess what !?, the poster had decided to give up on his Black after 3 months of trying. May sound extreme but hey ho - that's hi fi. I wont be giving up on her, no way - I'm in love, she's worth it ! Happy listening !

[Dane]

I'm sure you know how to set up a cartridge RobbieGong And I do agree it allso have something to do with cartridge / arm / TT combo. Since Project Experience TT's also are sold with factory fitted 2 M cartridges, I knew 2 M Black would work on my TT. But I also think that good enough is good enough, meaning I have it playing without distortion and it behaves well with heavy bass, voices etc. I sometimes read about cartridge test, where it's described as very good at playing music. But it have trouble tracking some "torture track" at the test record. But cartridges are designed to play music not test tones. So what's the point using it for setup. Maybe I would never have got it right with a test record as I did with my low tech approach and music. You should definitely not give up on the 2 M Black, but set it up to sound the best, you do know how and leave it there. It's a very revealing cartridge and not all records are perfect, so it can't sound perfect every time, but deliver the best the record have to offer. My 2 M Black is quite new and at the beginning there were no music, just information, but after some hours it started to really swing. I knew that cartridges have to play a bit before sound it's best. So I didn't mess about with the 2 M while breaking in. It still behaves nicely and I'm not gonna do anything but enjoy the sweet music from it until it's time to change the stylus. Hopefully a long time from now. But hey, I'm also a "set and forget" type when it comes to hi-fi.

[RobbieGong]

I've never seen or used a test record in my life, dont think i'd know how to use one Getting back to that rather nice system of yours. Are you looking to stay in that enviable and sensible 'loving it as is' zone or do you have any future plans to upgrade / itches to scratch ?

[Dane]

The newest upgrades is my phono stage (last year) and my cartridge a few weeks ago. But no, it stays at it is now. I would like the Pro-Ject speed box DS with pitch control to be able to finetune my TT. But right now it's just a thought because I'm quite happy with the sound as it is. So I
it would be kind of silly to spend money on something I don't really feel I need.