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Thread: K-Billyís Super Sounds of the 70ís.

  1. #21
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 888
    I'm Darren.

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    Changes to the system lately have concentrated on placement and wiring.

    The power and data cables for the TV have been routed through the roof space and tidied up with conduit. The power cable is a DIY effort constructed with 2 x 1.5mm CY cable (shield connected at plug only), MK ToughPlug, Silver plated figure 8, all cleaned and treated with DeOxit. The HDMI cable is an 8m AudioQuest Pearl, which was a significant improvement over the cheap 5m HDMI cable I had temporarily hooked the TV up with. I also have the TV plugged in through a mains filter which provides a significant improvement, mains filtering is something I will be looking into in the future.



    As the advice I received on OB's was that what I was trying to achieve would be unlikely to work in the room I have turned my attention back to the Celestions. I have moved the 44's further apart and closer to the rear wall which in itself made the speakers integrate better into the room, however changing the stands has been a revelation. I was using Atacama SL400i stands 2/3 filled with kiln dried sand but having picked up a few pairs of stands over the last few months I gave them all a go to see what difference, if any they would make. I've settled on a pair of "Foundation" branded stands, they're 600mm and constructed from thick walled box section. The difference from lifting the 44's 200mm took me very much by surprise, the sound from the speakers is far less in your face and the integration is so much better resulting in a better centre image and a bigger soundstage. There has been a huge improvement in the bass (which I put down to the construction of the stands?), it is far less bloated, has a lot more detail and subsequently allowed me to move the speakers closer to the rear wall and further utilise the reinforcement. As testament to my ignorance I really didn't expect stands to make such a big difference, to think I've been tripping over these stands for the last couple of months .

    I now have a pair of Beovox 5700's in place as surround speakers. These use the Celestion MD500 and HF2000 drivers with a Phillips 10" bass and ABR and are suitable for horizontal mounting (stock image, mine are nowhere near as pretty):



    I plan on bastardising these, removing the MD500 and swapping it for the D5 mid range in the 44's and replacing the HF2000's with SEAS 19TFF1, then they will be mounted horizontally either on the wall above the door way or ceiling mounted, I'm waiting on new inductors to arrive then I can begin work on this. The 5700 along with the rear mounted Ditton 11's integrate very well and the 5700 go down to ~50Hz which is where I cross them over to the sub. Talking about the sub, it is now behind the seating:



    To do this I knocked up a 20m lead made from Van Damme XKE, this has worked very well. There is far less room interaction in the bass, the room is now less "flooded" with bass which actually helps the surround illusion, more lower volume detail can be heard from the other speakers which really improves the sound stage. Lower frequencies also have far more impact and are more felt than heard. The downside, is that at times it is obvious that the sub's behind you. This only happens occasionally when watching a film but is far more detectable when listening to 2 channel music. I no longer use the sub when listening to music so this is a compromise I'm happy to make.

    Things are moving forward, just slowly. Once I have the new cross over components I'll be able to work on and mount the 5700's which will mean I'll be able to redecorate and put the rest of the furniture back in the lounge.
    Darren.

    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    CDP/BDP/DAC. Oppo 105D. Cassette Deck Technics RS-AZ7.
    Pre Amps. Croft Super Micro 2 / Oppo 105D. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks / Nakamichi AVP1. Interconnects Klotz MC5000, MS Audio.
    Front Speakers. Celestion Ditton 44. Centre Speaker. B&O Beovox 5700. Surround Speakers. Celestion UL8 Rear Speakers Celestion Ditton 11.
    Rack. Mana Acoustics.
    Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  2. #22
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 2,029
    I'm jamie.

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    looking good darren!
    interesting re the ditton height,most people have advised the lower height,i almost gave up on mine and started using the klh 23's again.
    in a last ditch attempt to postion them i now have them firing down the longside of my room and for starters have them 1570mm apart and 260 off the back wall (to back of cabinet). they sound much better in this postion. height wise they are 320 off the floor,always game to play i might knock up some stands at work to try your height out.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M,Mordaunt Short Signifer,Monitor Audio R952 MD,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT, Townsend Elite rock 2,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK ,Sony 700ES Amp,Sony X555ES CD Player, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,

  3. #23
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 888
    I'm Darren.

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    Cheers J .

    Definitely worth trying them higher if you can, lower might even have benefits, I would try it but I don't have any shorter stands. I'm astounded at the difference it's made, although I guess this will be relative to seating position.

    My room is pretty much square ~ 5m x 5m. I have them 2320mm apart, 185mm from rear wall (the closest I have had them, any closer and I hear the reflection) and sit ~4000mm (on the diagonal) away, with my ears ~1000mm off the floor, although ear height is subject to change .

    I'm sorry to read your struggling to house the 44's (although for all I know the KLH23's may just be better speakers, I've never heard a pair) well worth persevering IMHO, for me changing the stands is like having a new pair of better 44's.

    What type of construction will you use for the stands?
    Darren.

    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    CDP/BDP/DAC. Oppo 105D. Cassette Deck Technics RS-AZ7.
    Pre Amps. Croft Super Micro 2 / Oppo 105D. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks / Nakamichi AVP1. Interconnects Klotz MC5000, MS Audio.
    Front Speakers. Celestion Ditton 44. Centre Speaker. B&O Beovox 5700. Surround Speakers. Celestion UL8 Rear Speakers Celestion Ditton 11.
    Rack. Mana Acoustics.
    Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  4. #24
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 2,029
    I'm jamie.

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    well the klh 23 have a much better bass,they loose out in the hf,i just like the dittons better in that area (more detailed) which makes me want to keep on going with them,im happy with them at the moment though .
    re the stands i have a really cool idea up my sleeve,i fancy making up a pyramid in steel plate with a 6 or 8mm top plate welded to the point,the idea being that when the speakers are sat on them you wont see the plate giving the impression they are balanced on the point.
    to try them initially height wise i was thinking of something simple like these.



    ive sold the other pair of earlier 44's and recapped the other pair,ive left the mid and hf caps and just done the bass,they sound rather nice,just gotta do the internal wires.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M,Mordaunt Short Signifer,Monitor Audio R952 MD,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT, Townsend Elite rock 2,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK ,Sony 700ES Amp,Sony X555ES CD Player, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,

  5. #25
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 888
    I'm Darren.

    Default

    Better bass than the 44's I like your idea for stands, I'd like to try something completely solid next, slate is an interesting prospect.

    Why haven't you recapped the HF/Mid? When you rewire it's worth considering mounting all the components onto a new board to allow for better placement of the inductors. I did this when I installed the SEAS and the result of this was improved transparency and detail, doesn't need to be anything special, I used a sheet of perspex but you could use hard board or anything similar you have knocking about, I think I have a photo of the prototype I'll see if I can find it.
    Darren.

    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    CDP/BDP/DAC. Oppo 105D. Cassette Deck Technics RS-AZ7.
    Pre Amps. Croft Super Micro 2 / Oppo 105D. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks / Nakamichi AVP1. Interconnects Klotz MC5000, MS Audio.
    Front Speakers. Celestion Ditton 44. Centre Speaker. B&O Beovox 5700. Surround Speakers. Celestion UL8 Rear Speakers Celestion Ditton 11.
    Rack. Mana Acoustics.
    Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  6. #26
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 2,029
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    yes the klh 23's are famous for their bass,the magnet is huge! geoff is a fan and put me on to them.
    the reason i didnt replace the mid/hf caps was because they should be fine,have a look here for more detail. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...identification
    i have loads of perspex at work so i could try moving them,i think in the arrangement ken chose for his inductors would be fine.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M,Mordaunt Short Signifer,Monitor Audio R952 MD,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT, Townsend Elite rock 2,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK ,Sony 700ES Amp,Sony X555ES CD Player, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,

  7. #27
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 888
    I'm Darren.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    The Mid (C5 & C7 (I think) 6.2uF & 24uF ) are electrolytic, if you've not replaced these PM me your address I have some new or burnt in LL Alcaps you can have FOC.

    My prototype, caps used many times so scruffy as funk, based on Ken's layout (the inductor above the 27uF cap is now nearer the centre, I had it there as I wasn't sure how I was going to route the cables when I knocked this up):



    You'll notice the 27uF cap in the Mid this is my personal favorite value, I've tried 24uF - 30uF (with all the stops in between) and in my system, in my room this is the best result I've had, I'd recommend playing with this value if you can.
    Darren.

    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    CDP/BDP/DAC. Oppo 105D. Cassette Deck Technics RS-AZ7.
    Pre Amps. Croft Super Micro 2 / Oppo 105D. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks / Nakamichi AVP1. Interconnects Klotz MC5000, MS Audio.
    Front Speakers. Celestion Ditton 44. Centre Speaker. B&O Beovox 5700. Surround Speakers. Celestion UL8 Rear Speakers Celestion Ditton 11.
    Rack. Mana Acoustics.
    Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  8. #28
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 2,029
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    ah sorry i meant id changed all the electrolytics, its just the green caps i didnt change.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M,Mordaunt Short Signifer,Monitor Audio R952 MD,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT, Townsend Elite rock 2,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK ,Sony 700ES Amp,Sony X555ES CD Player, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,

  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 888
    I'm Darren.

    Default

    Fair enough. I imagine there would be a fair amount of mileage in replacing your board, getting rid o that big plastic connector could only be a good thing (this is on my to do list for my brothers 15XR's which use a similar horrible connector) with the benefit of better inductor spacing.

    The new inductors are now showing ready to ship so hopefully in the next few days I'll have everything I need to swap the 44 D5 for the 66 MD500, hopefully this will be a worthwhile venture.
    Darren.

    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    CDP/BDP/DAC. Oppo 105D. Cassette Deck Technics RS-AZ7.
    Pre Amps. Croft Super Micro 2 / Oppo 105D. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks / Nakamichi AVP1. Interconnects Klotz MC5000, MS Audio.
    Front Speakers. Celestion Ditton 44. Centre Speaker. B&O Beovox 5700. Surround Speakers. Celestion UL8 Rear Speakers Celestion Ditton 11.
    Rack. Mana Acoustics.
    Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  10. #30
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 2,029
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    i got itchy feet today and ordered the lot for the rewire and the hf cap replacement on mine,im gonna try kens mix of electrolytics/ with a dash of pp's for the 24uf mid
    will keep you posted
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M,Mordaunt Short Signifer,Monitor Audio R952 MD,Pioneer PLC-1700, DD,TT, Townsend Elite rock 2,,Alphason HR-100S-MCS,Ortofon 2M BLACK ,Sony 700ES Amp,Sony X555ES CD Player, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp ,

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