System advice

[Penultimate vinyl]

Hi there. I'd like some advice on improving my system. if anyone would care to offer any I'd be very grateful.
My system is a project expression ii with 2m blue playing through a marantz pm6003 into dali zensor 1s. The speakers are placed (by necessity) on cupboards (very sturdy and at ear height) but are well isolated with specialist foam supports. The sound is nice and clear but seems to be trapped in the plane of the speakers. There is a decent stereo image but it doesn't extend forwards into the room as I would like. What shouild i be looking to do in order to achieve a more room filling sound without increasing the volume and falling out with my fantastic neighbours?
Many thanks
Mark

[Macca]

Do you really want a soundstage that comes forward into the room? Fair enough if you do but for me that is always a sign of a bit of a mid range hump and it can get annoying, vocals get emphasised and other instruments get masked. But I know some like it. For me the soundstage should extend back and to the sides and have height but not come forward, it should 'exist' behind the plane of the speakers.

Bigger speakers would give more 'scale' to the sound without having to ramp up the level any but if that is not on the cards then this is a speaker placement/ room treatment issue I think. For starters, if possible, try getting the speakers out more into the room, away from side and back wall as much as possible, and with no clutter around them.

[Gordon Steadman]

Do you really want a soundstage that comes forward into the room? Fair enough if you do but for me that is always a sign of a bit of a mid range hump and it can get annoying, vocals get emphasised and other instruments get masked. But I know some like it. For me the soundstage should extend back and to the sides and have height but not come forward, it should 'exist' behind the plane of the speakers.

Bigger speakers would give more 'scale' to the sound without having to ramp up the level any but if that is not on the cards then this is a speaker placement/ room treatment issue I think. For starters, if possible, try getting the speakers out more into the room, away from side and back wall as much as possible, and with no clutter around them.

"ere Macca, you bin stealin' my words again?

I don't remember us kissin'

[Macca]

That'll be the drink again...

[Haselsh1]

Yeah, I honestly think that loudspeakers need plenty of room to 'breathe' and need to be well clear of room boundaries. I also agree with what has already been said, the stereo effect should be way back behind the speakers and right around either side of your head. Very best of luck.

[Barry]

Yeah, I honestly think that loudspeakers need plenty of room to 'breathe' and need to be well clear of room boundaries. I also agree with what has already been said, the stereo effect should be way back behind the speakers and right around either side of your head. Very best of luck.

The stereo effect shouldn't sound "right around either side of your head", unless it has been recorded in the middle of the orchestra (!) Neither should the sound stage necessarily sound as though it is behind the speakers, any more than it should sound in front of the speakers: the speakers should just 'disappear' and not provide an obvious reference point. That is not to say the image should float around, it should not, it should be fixed and focused, with space around each performer and, most importantly, should capture the acoustic in which the performance was recorded.

As the late Peter Walker of Quad once said "that somewhere around the plane of the speakers, the walls of your listening room should disappear and be replaced by those of the environment of the recording". (My emphasis.) That is, the plane of the speakers is a bit like a window looking into the performance.

[aniki]

the speakers should just 'disappear' and not provide an obvious reference point. That is not to say the image should float around, it should not, it should be fixed and focused, with space around each performer and, most importantly, should capture the acoustic in which the performance was recorded.

This; described perfectly.

[struth]

as in, nice sounding speakers.....what speakers

[walpurgis]

If the sound seems to be confined directly to and at the speakers, it's probably worth evaluating whether the rest of the system is contributing to this.

[Macca]

The stereo effect shouldn't sound "right around either side of your head", unless it has been recorded in the middle of the orchestra (!) Neither should the sound stage necessarily sound as though it is behind the speakers, any more than it should sound in front of the speakers: the speakers should just 'disappear' and not provide an obvious reference point. That is not to say the image should float around, it should not, it should be fixed and focused, with space around each performer and, most importantly, should capture the acoustic in which the performance was recorded.

As the late Peter Walker of Quad once said "that somewhere around the plane of the speakers, the walls of your listening room should disappear and be replaced by those of the environment of the recording". (My emphasis.) That is, the plane of the speakers is a bit like a window looking into the performance.

Easy-peasy with QUAD ESL but not so easy with most conventional cone in box loudspeakers. Which is why he invented the ESL. At the recent Cranage Hall show every room except those using Audionote speakers had them sited well out into the room to get that effect.