In praise of the sme v

[Joe]

Is that a statement that the SME V is faultless, perfect, and will remain so eternally?

I read it that Rexton hasn't heard anything better than an SME V. Is anything 'faultless'?

[Gordon Steadman]

I read it that Rexton hasn't heard anything better than an SME V. Is anything 'faultless'?

Only me

[Wakefield Turntables]

Is that a statement that the SME V is faultless, perfect, and will remain so eternally? If not, do you think it is your hearing, or the relative lack of alternatives auditioned which accounts for the problem?

How the hell did you come that ludicrous statement? Somtimes people read FAR too much into a statement. Have you purposefully produced this statement just to piss me off?

[Marco]

Is that a statement that the SME V is faultless, perfect, and will remain so eternally? If not, do you think it is your hearing, or the relative lack of alternatives auditioned which accounts for the problem?

Yup, a wee bit provocative, Pinky!

The SME V is a good tonearm, but there are others in my experience, which when used in an appropriate context, can musically outperform it.

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

Yup, a wee bit provocative, Pinky!

The SME V is a good tonearm, but there are others in my experience, which when used in an appropriate context, can musically outperform it.

Marco.

Not at all. Comments have a context. I was seeking a clarification to a comment from Rexton which started with a quote and "what gumph". He didn't say, out of a clear blue sky, "I don't have much experience of other arms, but I've owned an SME for 10 years and been really pleased with it". He responded to a comment made by another member, effectively saying "maybe the SME V's status owes more to its cult following, SME's huge marketing influence, and the large number of owners from the days 20+ years ago when it represented a huge step forward, than it does to any real claim to being the best sounding arm".

And his response was "what gumph" - dismissing the valid views of another forum member. A bit pompous - very authoratative. I could have replied "what gumph - if you had listened to a few decent arms instead of the vin ordinaire you selected, you'd realise how the SME is good but not great"

But that would have been pompous - and presumptive (that Rexton had only listened to run of the mill arms, and had no decent point of reference for commenting on the SME V's merits, like say the Graham arm) so I tried for deferential instead, and asked for a clarification.

Taken out of context "I've had mine for 10 years and heard nothing better" is meaningless - unless as a statement that all that matters is what Rexton thinks and likes for himself. "In 25 years the GL75 arm is the finest arm my Mum has heard" is true and about as usefull. Or I could say "I had an SME V once, but changed it for a Mission 774, and in 15 years of using the Mission I never heard a finer arm". That statement is also true, but I changed from SME V to Mission 774 because I had to give back the company car, and the "pool car" was what was on offer. And I never heard an arm better than the 774 in 15 years, because I didn't listen to any other arms in that time. (Which isnt to say that the 774 isnt an excellent arm, much under-rated)

There is a context. And I sought to clarify it. If Rextons reference points are the ubiquitous forum favourites of moderate Regas, Origon live offerings, and the legendary Jelco, then small wonder the SME V is the best he's heard.

There is a famous definition of stupidity, which is "to keep trying the same thing, and to expect a different outcome". To which I might add the quote of Albert Einstein on Funks website- "There are only two things which are infinite. The Universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not completely certain about the Universe"

I'm sorry if my comment was taken as hostile, but I feel Rextons comment, given its context and pompous (Gumph)dismissal of the valid views of another forum member, needed a clarification.

[Marco]

Yeah, sure. For me, as ever in these instances, it's not so much about *what* is written, but rather how it's written. Essentially, it's about the appropriate use of language.

The tone of Andy's post was rather grouchy, and your reply to him continued the theme, by being more than a little condescending. Being provocative, rather than respectful, rarely results in the other person accepting your point of view.

Therefore, the key is to treat each other's opinions with the appropriate respect [respecting someone's right to hold them], even if you don't agree with the content, or think it's 'nonsense', and to argue politely in defence of your contrary view, by playing the ball, not the man. That's how harmony is maintained. It's all in the AoS ethos

...we would like to provide our members with a place where they feel that they can be themselves and express their views on hi-fi, music, and any other permitted subject, without peer pressure, one-upmanship, and a feeling of having to conform to some accepted ‘norm’. There are no cliques, hidden agendas, nor any preferential treatment given; and not only will our members themselves be treated with respect but also their opinions and observations, particularly those of people who may not have the same level of experience with hi-fi as others. With that in mind, the forum will be strictly but fairly moderated.

Marco.

[aniki]

I personally didn't interpret Rexton's comment as pompous.

Whether the 'other members' point about form over function was valid or not is entirely subjective also.

If Rextons reference points are the ubiquitous forum favourites of moderate Regas, Origon live offerings, and the legendary Jelco, then small wonder the SME V is the best he's heard.

But this is 100% assumption on your part.

There is a famous definition of stupidity, which is "to keep trying the same thing, and to expect a different outcome". To which I might add the quote of Albert Einstein on Funks website- "There are only two things which are infinite. The Universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not completely certain about the Universe"

How does including this in your thread contribute anything other than suggesting you think someone is stupid?

I'm sorry if my comment was taken as hostile, but I feel Rextons comment, given its context and pompous (Gumph)dismissal of the valid views of another forum member, needed a clarification.

Calling people stupid is pretty hostile.

I am in a great position to be able to audition most products, mass market or otherwise yet still my arm of choice for my current TT, system etc. is the IV.
I was actually considering a contribution to this thread but to be honest it's exactly this kind of unnecessary and unprovoked hostility that makes me think, screw that, I'm out!

[Marco]

How does including this in your thread contribute anything other than suggesting you think someone is stupid?

Calling people stupid is pretty hostile.

I do agree, as that's what was being inferred, and it certainly wasn't helpful.

Marco.

[Joe]

There is a famous definition of stupidity, which is "to keep trying the same thing, and to expect a different outcome". To which I might add the quote of Albert Einstein on Funks website- "There are only two things which are infinite. The Universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not completely certain about the Universe"

As Kierkegaard put it 'When one is in a hole, it is better to stop digging'.

[Oldpinkman]

I personally didn't interpret Rexton's comment as pompous.

But this is 100% assumption on your part.

How does including this in your thread contribute anything other than suggesting you think someone is stupid?

Yes - it would be 100% assumption, were I to have said that - which is why in my first post I asked for a clarification of which arms Rexton has heard instead of making that assumption.

The quote about stupidity is famous, and, normally interpreted as humorous. It means " often people keep doing things the same way, like listening to tonearms which are basically similar, a hollow metal tube, and so the results they get are - unsurpisingly similar. If you try something radically different - a thread bearing, a Unipivot, a crossbraced arm tube - then they have a chance of sounding different"

Its not about "you're stupid". It's about - if you want to get something different - do something different, instead of keep trying tiny variations on basically the same theme.

Like I say - outside the world of HiFi forums it is generally considered humorous. (I can't be sure, because he isn't there to ask any more - but I have a feeling Einstein was having a shot at humour too)

I'm very happy you like your SME IV. It's quite nice and relatively inexpensive for the fine engineering. I have heard several arms which I much prefer for listening to music. And believe it or not, so have quite a few others out in the big world of HiFi.