Save up for a Nottingham Hyperspace or make the final upgrade with ETP platter?

[Marco]

Sounds like a plan, busy for a few weeks but then saturdays or evenings after mid july are good for me. I'll happily provde beer, drinks, food for the mini bake....

No worries, same here. Mid July sounds good, though. Just PM me when you fancy it, but give me at least a week's notice

Marco.

[aniki]

... and the servo hunting around must have a negative effect, maybe in the same way jitter affects our enjoyment of music from a digital source...

No. The Technics Servo does not 'hunt'. In fact it 'speed corrects' approximately 50 times per second.
Is it audible? You bet it is! It sounds 'correct'. This is what gives it its potential to sound so freaking awesome!
In fact it is one of the most speed accurate turntable mechanisms in the world, at any price.

[allthingsanalogue]

No. The Technics Servo does not 'hunt'. In fact it 'speed corrects' approximately 50 times per second.
Is it audible? You bet it is! It sounds 'correct'. This is what gives it its potential to sound so freaking awesome!
In fact it is one of the most speed accurate turntable mechanisms in the world, at any price.

[montesquieu]

Hi Tom,


We've had a bake-off at your place planned for ages, so why don't we get something put into the diary? You'll need to choose what kit you'd like me most to bring down, as the Croft/Copper amp and all the Techy stuff would probably be a little too much to get through, especially with all the superb music we'll be listening to

Marco.

Hi Marco, yes I've been putting off firming anything up (I also have a Classical Music Day planned) awaiting my scratch build preamp from Will at Radford Revival, to go with the STA100, but due to pressure of work his end that seems to have slipped in the schedule, so maybe I should just pick some dates and get on with it (most likely in August if that's possible as I'm away part of July at a wedding and a bit later in Finland - visting the bloke I bought the ST100 as it happens). Will's loaner Woodside SC26 is far from shabby and will certainly do the necessary.

On the Techie, I'm certainly prepared to be persuaded, I've learned long ago in this game that preconceptions are for confronting and often for confounding. Within reason of course (or at least, within the laws of physics).

I suspect TTs are the best way to go for a sesh. While it would be interesting to hear the Copper amp in this setup, I have a stong suspicion that the outcome would be much the same as when an EAR 890 came to visit - another KT90 equipped, very well-sorted PP amp, it sounded very very similar into the Tannoys as the Radford, and so it should being just a perfect match into these speakers.

Having fun tonight playing with my Miyajima Shilabe, recently arrived 1961 Ortofon SPU GE (again - I missed the one I sold!) and a Shibata-tipped Denon 103, all things pretty up your street I would reckon!

[ChrisKemp]

I'm sure he'll love it Marco and many others do as well but, fo me, it'll aways be trying a little to hard and be a bit rough around the edges and the servo hunting around must have a negative effect, maybe in the same way jitter affects our enjoyment of music from a digital source. I also don't understand the rationale behind buying a £500 deck and then spending £5k on it trying to get it to the level of other good turntables (bit like people spending money on modding cars, half of them end up very expensive and rubbsh but the cost involved means they can't admit to any mistakes). I'm sure your techie sounds totally different to a stock one, or the one I sold recently but that kind of expenditure buys an awful lot of turntable used.

Each to his own though, it's a good thing people like different things, it's what makes bakeoffs so enjoyable

I think for many hifi enthusiasts it would be easier to "swallow" the cost of upgrades on the SL12xx if the price for the original TT was high end priced. If the price for a SL was around £5000 from start, then it would make sence to upgrade it for another £5000 Is it more sensible to pay alot of money upgrading a VPI Classic 1 to a Classic 3 plus peripher ring clamp and heavier platter, to fully upgrade a NAS Hyperspace with heavy platter, PSU and arm or a Transrotor ZET-1 to a heavy platter, double belt drive, TMD bearing like the ZET-3.

To me it's the other way around. It makes more sense upgrading a TT like the SL12xx to a high end sounding table, rather than finding the need to upgrade an already hiend priced table that should sound great in the first place, looking at the price tag....

[Marco]

Hi Marco, yes I've been putting off firming anything up (I also have a Classical Music Day planned) awaiting my scratch build preamp from Will at Radford Revival, to go with the STA100, but due to pressure of work his end that seems to have slipped in the schedule, so maybe I should just pick some dates and get on with it (most likely in August if that's possible...

Sounds good to me, Tom. We're not having a summer holiday this year [instead selling one of our smaller UK properties, and using the dosh to 'do up' the one we live in], so a sesh in August would be cool

On the Techie, I'm certainly prepared to be persuaded, I've learned long ago in this game that preconceptions are for confronting and often for confounding. Within reason of course (or at least, within the laws of physics).

Exactly; I couldn't agree more.

There are too many folk, especially on forums, who seem scared to think outside of the box or challenge their belief system, and most importantly re-evaluate, and if necessary alter, ancient, rigidly held opinions... The sheer intransigence displayed boils my piss! ALL of us should always be willing to learn in this game, or admit mistakes, and not think that we already know it all.

Arrogance has always been a rather ugly trait!

I suspect TTs are the best way to go for a sesh. While it would be interesting to hear the Copper amp in this setup, I have a stong suspicion that the outcome would be much the same as when an EAR 890 came to visit - another KT90 equipped, very well-sorted PP amp, it sounded very very similar into the Tannoys as the Radford, and so it should being just a perfect match into these speakers.

Having fun tonight playing with my Miyajima Shilabe, recently arrived 1961 Ortofon SPU GE (again - I missed the one I sold!) and a Shibata-tipped Denon 103, all things pretty up your street I would reckon!

Yup, defo. Ok, that sounds like a plan, so when you can, swing me (via PM) some proposed dates for August

Marco.

[DSJR]

Hi Des,

For me the 'servo hunting' thing is a total non-issue, both technically and sonically.

National Panasonic dealt with that by introducing the 'Quartz lock' system, Marco.

PLEASE may I add that the top line Technics (and others I know from Sony and Pioneer amongst many) decks of the early to mid 70's, before quartz locking came into being domestically, didn't servo hunt at all. Like my Dual 701, they have a lazy servo which will correct speed under moderate drag, but not overshoot when the load is removed - they're more like a good silent belt drive IMO. There WAS an OEM Matsushita direct drive motor used by all and sundry 'other' manufacturers (Rotel, Trio/Kenwood I think,Monitor Audio, JBE and Garrard [DD75] that come to mind), which used to servo hunt all over the place if play-weight went much over 2g and I remember the Technics SL2000 cheapo model, that hunted at 1,5g tracking force, a ghastly thing It was these that helped give 'direct drive' a bad name I recall and of course, in the UK, Linn and their often ignorant dealers (of which I was one, although I hope I was a tad more enlightened than many) all but took the market over for fifteen years or more while other markets embraced cord drive heavyweghts - IMO...

I love the NAS Hyperspace, but like all Tom's old designs, it prefers the matching arm (HFW tested their review one with a sodding SME and claimed the sound was musical but 'polite'). No wonder!!!!!! The NAS arm and graphite platter do full (and exceptionally truthful IMO) service with good Decca's and other lively, communicative cartridges IME - ask Hifi Dave as he sells 'em!

As for jitter in 'digital,' I *thought* that was another loss-leader that had been sorted decades ago and never an issue now, despite what the 'me-too' add-on brigade tell you.

[ChrisKemp]

Read trough this thread and must thank every one of you and espesially Marco, that with his post tipped my scale to buy the ETP. I'm back to the Denon DL-103R again, but this time with an Isokinetik brass stabiliser of 8,5g. Total mass of headshell, cart and stabiliser is 31g. Together with the ETP platter the music is SO good; with greater dynamic and blacker background. I was afraid of getting more bass, but what I got with the ETP was deeper, tighter and more tuneful bass. The highs and mids are clearer and the deck just sound SO fantastic.

[allthingsanalogue]

My base plate and etp will arrive soon to me also!

[dmckean]

Read trough this thread and must thank every one of you and espesially Marco, that with his post tipped my scale to buy the ETP. I'm back to the Denon DL-103R again, but this time with an Isokinetik brass stabiliser of 8,5g. Total mass of headshell, cart and stabiliser is 31g. Together with the ETP platter the music is SO good; with greater dynamic and blacker background. I was afraid of getting more bass, but what I got with the ETP was deeper, tighter and more tuneful bass. The highs and mids are clearer and the deck just sound SO fantastic.

When you wear that one out, treat yourself to the Zu version of this cartridge.