A Visit to Tom's Place (Montesquieu)

[Marco]

Fortunately, I have a dedicated room in which to use my Lockies, and no immediate neighbours, so I can play music as loudly as I like, as often as I like, at whatever time I fancy...

In any case, the "maligned HPD" has never been such, IMO. I've heard loads of examples of Tannoy HPDs, and all have impressed in different ways.

However, at the end of the day, no matter what you do, both drivers have a different style of musical presentation - and much will depend on how optimally they've been partnered with the right cabinets, thus allowing the respective drive units to 'behave' as intended.

I have ZERO doubt whatsoever that I would love Paul's Tannoys (consider that a given), so there is no 'winning over' to be done. However, I'm equally certain that, as good as they are, they would not 'leave my MGs for dead'...

At some point, in the interests of 'new discoveries', we should carry out that comparison, perhaps at Scalford? It's been a while since I've had the, erm, 'pleasure' of lugging the Lockwoods down to such an event!

Marco.

[Marco]

Love the Clint Eastwood thing, btw, Tom

Anyway...

The impact of amps is major in all this - I have tried well over 30 amps with the above combos and come to the following conclusions:

1) Single ended amps will go loud enough but unless they have exceptional iron will never have the clarity (especially in the bass) of a good push-pull amp with at least 15-20w for MGs and 40-50w for HPD. Up to a point there's an exception if they are in little cabinets not producing much low bass anyway. I've personally never heard a single ended amp do the job properly, not even a big 211 or 845, but I'm assured (by Nick Gorham no less) that such amps do exist.
2) KT88/KT90/KT120s RULE! although well-driven EL34s can come close especially with MGs. The trick is in the damping factor, you want a decent amount (more than just about any single ended valve amp will give you) but not too much or there's a danger the life will be sucked out. This is more of an issue on the 15in than on the 12in, as that big cone is a bugger to control properly.
3) Amp requirements are divergent between MGs and HPDs, the HPDs sound best with 50-100w valve power but also respond really well to big solid state jobbies (I had huge fun with a 200w Lyngdorf). 12w PP will do a decent though not quite optimal job with MGs, but will fail to adequately light up HPDs in a normal sized room.

I completely concur, as the above largely mirrors my own experience.

I would, personally, never ever use any big Tannoy DCs with a flea-powered SET amp. It just doesn't work - or rather 'work' to a level I would consider as satisfactory. I think it's worth pointing out that virtually all of my large Tannoy DC listening has been carried out with a Copper amp, or other big KT88/120 valve amp of some description, where serious attention has been paid to the PSU sections (iron used in traffos).

I have little doubt that's why I've always been able to appreciate big Tannoy DCs (HPD or MG - and even Monitor Reds) at or near their best, [the right 'infrastructure' has always been in place, allowing them to perform to their true potential], and so haven't required undertaking a 'convoluted journey' to arrive at a state of complete satisfaction!

Marco.

[Reffc]

Fortunately, I have a dedicated room in which to use my Lockies, and no immediate neighbours, so I can play music as loudly as I like, as often as I like, at whatever time I fancy...

In any case, the "maligned HPD" has never been such, IMO. I've heard loads of examples of Tannoy HPDs, and all have impressed in different ways.

However, at the end of the day, no matter what you do, both drivers have a different style of musical presentation - and much will depend on how optimally they've been partnered with the right cabinets, thus allowing the respective drive units to 'behave' as intended.

I have ZERO doubt whatsoever that I would love Paul's Tannoys (consider that a given), so there is no 'winning over' to be done. However, I'm equally certain that, as good as they are, they would not 'leave my MGs for dead'...

At some point, in the interests of 'new discoveries', we should carry out that comparison, perhaps at Scalford? It's been a while since I've had the, erm, 'pleasure' of lugging the Lockwoods down to such an event!

Marco.

Wow..hadn't intended on a "War of the Tannoys" response to the thread!

Thank you Hugo for your kind words and some day perhaps you'll get your wish, so I'll add you to the "maybe" build list!

I think that Tom's balanced response is a fair one, and I've heard some of Tom's iterations along his Tannoy journey, and suffice to say, I wasn't blown away by any combination that I heard at Tom's place (or elsewhere come to that) and after years of messing about with Tannoys, decided to see what I could do with them in earnest. To cut a long story short, I ended up with the RFC Canterbury design which relies on equal partnerships between the right driver/cabinet design/crossover, the the RFC Canterburys were the result.


As you say Marco, it isn't so much one being "better" than the other, but both types having strengths and as with all hifi, personal subjective choices. I will say that compared with most vintage Tannoy designs, the RFC Canterburys exhibit fewer compromises by design, something which has taken a great deal of effort and cost. I think, if I may in all modesty say so, that is reflected in how they do indeed sound.

I will have a slightly more refined set ready in the New Year on permanent demo, so the opportunity will exist for anyone interested to come and listen for themselves.

[Marco]

No problem with any of that, Paul. Would love to come and hear the RFC Canterburys sometime. If you lived closer, it would've already happened!

Marco.

[George47]

Having e-mailed Tom I went round to hear the Tannoys. I am in a different position to others in that I am updating a system and want to put together a 'final' system. The system is currently an Esoteric P03/D03 CD player, a Voyd Ref/SME V and Io, an ARC Ref 5SE, a Ref 75SE and a set of Wilson 6s. I have updated all the bits of kit excluding the Wilsons. I was looking for a system that will do all the drama of the current set up but with a more organic, human and natural sound. I have started to settle on Wilson Sashas having heard Audionotes and Sonus Fabers without hitting the magic spot. I had separately put my name down for a bake-off at Grahams who was using a Tannoy GRF made by Speedysteve. Having heard them and got a very positive vibe (another story) I asked Tom if I could hear his set up. I did warn him I prefer more modern music as well as classical.

I turned up and was made very welcome by Tom and his good lady. Having a good look at the set up and the speakers although of a period looked a lot more modern than the classic Tannoys. On goes a few albums and what had struck me at Grahams was here in spades, the sheer naturalness and 'liveness' of the music. I put on Finlandia (CD) and even before the music started the ambience of the hall was easily heard. When the music started there was a real shock caused by the sheer drama of the music. This was a real strength of the system. The musical dynamics were a positive strength. As the music carried on the tonal saturation was another positive and the musical instruments were very real. Tom played some classical tunes and the realism of the instruments was excellent. Also the musicality of the music was striking and it was fascinating listening to some really old recordings, which showed a whole lot of real character which we doubted would have been heard when the albums were released.

I then played some of my favs (maybe not Toms). On goes Caro Emerald with a wicked bass line, which Toms set up had no problem showing. It differentiated the notes, colour and tone of this electronically produced bass. Although a little 'fat' it was very tight. Tom mentioned that his fave preamp was away and he was using an inexpensive pre in its place. That was doing a sterling job. On then goes Percy......Led Zep 1....and the system showed uo the power in RP's voice and the speed of the drumming. If I was being a shade critical I would say it was a little slower than I am used to but that could be that preamp.

I did mention to Tom that I would be happy to bring along my Ref 5SEs (now with new valves) to compare to his Radford when it returns.

Overall though these speakers have caused a rethink and I have already started talking to Paul at RFC.

And thanks to Tom for his hospitality and a dam good listening session.

[montesquieu]

Having e-mailed Tom I went round to hear the Tannoys. I am in a different position to others in that I am updating a system and want to put together a 'final' system. The system is currently an Esoteric P03/D03 CD player, a Voyd Ref/SME V and Io, an ARC Ref 5SE, a Ref 75SE and a set of Wilson 6s. I have updated all the bits of kit excluding the Wilsons. I was looking for a system that will do all the drama of the current set up but with a more organic, human and natural sound. I have started to settle on Wilson Sashas having heard Audionotes and Sonus Fabers without hitting the magic spot. I had separately put my name down for a bake-off at Grahams who was using a Tannoy GRF made by Speedysteve. Having heard them and got a very positive vibe (another story) I asked Tom if I could hear his set up. I did warn him I prefer more modern music as well as classical.

I turned up and was made very welcome by Tom and his good lady. Having a good look at the set up and the speakers although of a period looked a lot more modern than the classic Tannoys. On goes a few albums and what had struck me at Grahams was here in spades, the sheer naturalness and 'liveness' of the music. I put on Finlandia (CD) and even before the music started the ambience of the hall was easily heard. When the music started there was a real shock caused by the sheer drama of the music. This was a real strength of the system. The musical dynamics were a positive strength. As the music carried on the tonal saturation was another positive and the musical instruments were very real. Tom played some classical tunes and the realism of the instruments was excellent. Also the musicality of the music was striking and it was fascinating listening to some really old recordings, which showed a whole lot of real character which we doubted would have been heard when the albums were released.

I then played some of my favs (maybe not Toms). On goes Caro Emerald with a wicked bass line, which Toms set up had no problem showing. It differentiated the notes, colour and tone of this electronically produced bass. Although a little 'fat' it was very tight. Tom mentioned that his fave preamp was away and he was using an inexpensive pre in its place. That was doing a sterling job. On then goes Percy......Led Zep 1....and the system showed uo the power in RP's voice and the speed of the drumming. If I was being a shade critical I would say it was a little slower than I am used to but that could be that preamp.

I did mention to Tom that I would be happy to bring along my Ref 5SEs (now with new valves) to compare to his Radford when it returns.

Overall though these speakers have caused a rethink and I have already started talking to Paul at RFC.

And thanks to Tom for his hospitality and a dam good listening session.

Pleasure to have you round, George. Done right, Tannoys do scale and dynamics, that's for sure, while Paul's work on this RFC Canterbury has to my mind optimised the good stuff and minimised any down sides of the the Tannoy DC. Nice to get some 'different' music once in a while. (Even yours, Justin!).

The preamp was this one, Sheer Audio Direct Heated Triode (12A) pre - single gain stage. Silly cheap from Taiwan (under £300, equates to about £400 landed including postage and customs charges).

Out of the box it showed promise but had an unfortunate glare in the midrange I wasn't keen on. Graeme H (Valvebloke/Ampregen) worked some magic on it sorting out grounding, eliminating microphonics and improving a few strange component choices. End result is not a bad sound at all, I have in the past paid far more and got a lot less. Will's pre is off for a tweak in the PSU, due back tomorrow.

[Marco]

What's happened to your Radford preamp, Tom?

Marco.

[montesquieu]

What's happened to your Radford preamp, Tom?

Marco.

Will had it back briefly. It's due home again tomorrow

[Marco]

Ah, I see. Nice one. Pity that wasn't in your system when George was visiting

Marco.

[Reffc]

Pleasure to have you round, George. Done right, Tannoys do scale and dynamics, that's for sure, while Paul's work on this RFC Canterbury has to my mind optimised the good stuff and minimised any down sides of the the Tannoy DC. Nice to get some 'different' music once in a while. (Even yours, Justin!).

The preamp was this one, Sheer Audio Direct Heated Triode (12A) pre - single gain stage. Silly cheap from Taiwan (under £300, equates to about £400 landed including postage and customs charges).

Out of the box it showed promise but had an unfortunate glare in the midrange I wasn't keen on. Graeme H (Valvebloke/Ampregen) worked some magic on it sorting out grounding, eliminating microphonics and improving a few strange component choices. End result is not a bad sound at all, I have in the past paid far more and got a lot less. Will's pre is off for a tweak in the PSU, due back tomorrow.

Are those valves each wearing a pair of "Beats by Dre" Tom?