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Thread: 1210 rewiring

  1. #1
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: kabul

    Posts: 1,147
    I'm bob.

    Default 1210 rewiring

    Hi

    My 1210 is at the doctor and will probably need a new main motor board, but I asked him about rewiring tonearm etc whilst he had it. He said about £70 including new wires for both the inside arm and the RCAs, which makes me think he is not using great wire. It seems that is I am paying him to take it all apart etc then if I can do a rewire for a few extra pennies whilst its all laid bare then maybe I should do that....?

    Now I have a spare set of these:

    http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tv...HA606-100.html

    ...and am thinking I can just give him those to use - am I right in that?

    Saying that it would be very convenient for placement to have the RCA cables being 2m long - are there any reasons to keep the RCAs short? If not what is good to use or do I just buy any old 2M RCA connects? [or maybe better still just ONE 4M one and cut it?]

    Other question is what are best wires to use for inside the arm and best place to buy them?

    I know often you can buy EG a set of wires all ready that might cost £90, but that if you just bought the base wires from a elcetircal shop they could be a lot cheaper indeed - ideally I am looking for advice that will see me get some great wires for not much cash from a local leccy factors....

    Cheers.

    R.

    open heart surgery showing PCB looking perfectly fine, but still it wont spin. The lights are all on, but nobody's home!

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

    Posts: 1,519
    I'm Andrei.

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    First up: if your 1210 is a Mk5g you will not need a rewire.
    If is a Mk2 or a Mk5 it is a good idea to rewire.
    70 quid seems pretty good for internal and external wiring - it is a pretty tricky job, I would go for that. If you are twitchy about the wire he is using you can talk to him about it and maybe agree another - I know Cardas is popular.
    Length of wire: usually two meters is just fine (occasional issues if unshielded). However the signal from the TT to the phono stage is tiny, so I think it is better practice to keep that shorter and have extra length elsewhere.
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: kabul

    Posts: 1,147
    I'm bob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
    First up: if your 1210 is a Mk5g you will not need a rewire.
    If is a Mk2 or a Mk5 it is a good idea to rewire.
    70 quid seems pretty good for internal and external wiring - it is a pretty tricky job, I would go for that. If you are twitchy about the wire he is using you can talk to him about it and maybe agree another - I know Cardas is popular.
    Length of wire: usually two meters is just fine (occasional issues if unshielded). However the signal from the TT to the phono stage is tiny, so I think it is better practice to keep that shorter and have extra length elsewhere.
    Thanks Andrei - I am taking the deck to him on Friday for the proper diagnosis and will be leaving it with him for at least a week as I shall be out of town. I will ask him about the wires he uses nut I didn't get the impression he had done much "audiophile" 1210 stuff, though he seemed competent and a nice guy...

    I wonder if I should ask him to put the PSU outside the box while he is at it? After doing a bit of googling I see that what you mean is just take the existing PSU from the TT and put it into a new exterior box. When I googled it before I was finding just £300 all new relacements.... Any tips on what box to get to put it into? I get feeling with this guy that he will be really low price if I supply all the kit to him.

    Re RCA length - 2M cable would alleviate a problem I have with TT placement, but if it will be an issue then I can skip it. Would be nice to put the TT further from my Brio-3 though it is purely for aesthetic reasons...

    I'll look up CARDAS wires. Am I good to go with just any old decent RCAs though?

    R

  4. #4
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

    Posts: 1,519
    I'm Andrei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpx View Post

    I wonder if I should ask him to put the PSU outside the box while he is at it?
    Hell yeah! Maybe take some screenshots from the threads with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rdpx View Post
    Re RCA length - 2M cable would alleviate a problem I have with TT placement, but if it will be an issue then I can skip it. Would be nice to put the TT further from my Brio-3 though it is purely for aesthetic reasons...
    I'll look up CARDAS wires. Am I good to go with just any old decent RCAs though?
    I mentioned Cardas as it comes as a "Rewire Kit" for tonearms. A tonearm rewire does need good wire because of the minute signal. Even more finicky is the wiring inside the armwand. For that part at least I would say 'no, not any old cable' but get a kit (Cardas is one example). That part of the wiring runs from the arm-wand to a small PCB within the tonearm mount. From there an interconnect runs out to the phono stage or phono input on the pre/integrated amp. That will have RCAs on one end and the other will be soldered onto that same small PCB. The one you linked in your first post seems pretty decent. [Edit: The RCA cable should be shielded, often not necessary but for a phono lead of 2m I consider it mandatory. So not the one you linked.]

    I suggest reading this fabulous thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...L-1200-Tonearm
    Again take a pile of screenshots to your doctor
    Last edited by Andrei; 12-02-2015 at 02:27. Reason: Shielding
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: kabul

    Posts: 1,147
    I'm bob.

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    Andrei

    it just occured to me that instead of going through all the hassle of ripping off the rubber insulation underneath the Technics platter, why would you not just put DYNAMAT, or some similar 3 or 5mm thick sound damping mat ON TOP of the platter, thus killing two birds with one stone (IE insulating the platter AND avoiding need for a further acrhomat or whatever special platter mat)

    Maybe I am missing something?

    R

    EG: http://www.noisetek.fi/en/rasvaimen.html

    [PS yr mailbox is full!]

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

    Posts: 231
    I'm Ian.

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    I used an open weave silicon rubber non slip matt 2.5mm thick. Placed on top of the platter inside the outer ring. A technics rubber matt sits on top of this.
    You can buy a roll of the nonslip matt from Autostores or Quality DIY stores for a few pounds. Numerous other applications for vibration absorbtion

    Re noisetek It seems from the spec sheet to have quite a wide tolerance for thickess . Doesn't say if this is across a sheet or measurement made at spot positions. I would be looking for something flatter


  7. #7
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

    Posts: 1,519
    I'm Andrei.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rdpx View Post
    Andrei

    it just occured to me that instead of going through all the hassle of ripping off the rubber insulation underneath the Technics platter, why would you not just put DYNAMAT, or some similar 3 or 5mm thick sound damping mat ON TOP of the platter, thus killing two birds with one stone (IE insulating the platter AND avoiding need for a further acrhomat or whatever special platter mat)
    Maybe I am missing something?
    No don't use dynamat on top of the platter. First you will not get it level. Second, it has a metal film on top - not the kind of surface you want your records to touch. Don't even try it - is a a bugger to remove. you can damp the inside of the chassis with the stuff - it does a good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianmac View Post
    I used an open weave silicon rubber non slip matt 2.5mm thick. Placed on top of the platter inside the outer ring. A technics rubber matt sits on top of this.
    You can buy a roll of the nonslip matt from Autostores or Quality DIY stores for a few pounds. Numerous other applications for vibration absorbtion
    Re noisetek It seems from the spec sheet to have quite a wide tolerance for thickess . Doesn't say if this is across a sheet or measurement made at spot positions. I would be looking for something flatter
    That looks interesting.
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Interesting indeed (the open weave stuff), but in my experience, sonically, rubber is about one of the worst things to make a T/T mat from, as its impedance match with vinyl itself is poor. Consequently, it produces a 'thick' and opaque sound, in comparison with something else better suited to the job, such as an Achromat (or Resomat), which works on a different principle.

    Therefore, if it were me, I'd use the open weave stuff to damp the platter, and place an Achromat (or Resomat) on top of that, either of which will interface more effectively with vinyl records, and consequently produce far superior sonic results

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


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