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Thread: Yamaha NS1000M - Tweaks

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,314
    I'm Ken.

    Default Update - Listening Results

    Listening results for the Re Capped speakers.

    I listened to many tracks on a Sugden CD21 and on my Turntable, via a Sugden A21a Integrated Amp and also through a Croft Micro 25 Pre/Phono and Proton AA-1150 Power Amp.

    As a starting point let me try and describe how the NS1000M sounded before any changes:
    I found there was a tendency to favour the upper frequencies, with the midrange and tweeter sounding forward and slightly edgy with the lower frequencies sounding slightly detached and lacking a bit of energy. I used the level controls to compensate and for both upper drivers adjusted to ten to the hour; 12 o’clock being flat. This is what a lot of people end up doing and probably fuels the comments that careful amp matching is important with these speakers to avoid brightness. I would rate my kit as fairly neutral in presentation, so will not comment further on that, only to say that my gear/speakers seemed to fit this trend.

    After the re cap compared to the original sound
    The results were not as dramatic as when I re capped my Celestion 66’s, I think this is because the 66’s use quite a few electrolytics which would have deteriated to quite an extent, hence the big improvement. The NS1000M use film caps (metalized paper) apart from the large value Lytics used in parallel in the bass filter. These film caps have a long life so will not have deteriated to any great degree, but are not quite as good as modern Polyprops. I think this is what accounts for the smaller impact the changes made.

    After 7 hours playing
    The sound is generally slightly warmer now but the mids are edgy and timing is off which it never was previously. Listening to one of my killer tracks for timing, Gershwins Rhapsody in Blue by Pittsburgh Symphony/Previn on Philips, the fast percussive piano became a jumble of sound and the tune was almost lost. After 40 hours, maybe less the sound had smoothed out and timing had improved a lot. I didn’t listen in between so couldn’t say precisely at what point things improved or if it was gradual.

    After 60 hours compared to the original sound
    I now have both the level controls set to flat.
    There is no longer any harshness in the treble or prevalence towards the upper frequencies.
    The mid range is warmer/richer sounding than before.
    Overall, a more balanced sound, with no area standing out or dominating.
    Trumpet and Sax are notably sweeter with no sign of harshness.
    Piano notes have better timber and seem more realistic.
    Bass has a bit more of a punch and better grain/texture.

    On the bass, I had read where one owner had taken all three sheets of wadding out from behind the bass driver and he thought it improved the sound. I took only one sheet out and found the upper bass level was slightly more elevated but it was a bit thin sounding to me. I put the sheet back in and felt it sounded richer/fuller so left it at that.

    The improvements were not night and day but overall the presentation is slightly more even handed and I would say more musical, from what is basically a studio monitor, the later being a trait which monitors are not renowned for. I would speculate that they are also more amp friendly now, though they have lost none of that crisp top end, which the Beryllium drivers are capable of delivering. The Mundorf Supremes are doing a good job there and over all I would say the level of detail has improved slightly, but like I mentioned, nothing dramatic.

    So a slight improvement in most areas with nothing negative to report.

    I am very happy with the way this went and will not be tampering any further.

    The following link details the parts I used in the re cap and also the measurements I took from the caps taken out, plus measurements from the stock inductors. These may be of use to anyone looking to attempt any x-over work:

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Project_Imag...000M_Recap.pdf

    Also this link for the Owners Manual may be of interest:

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Project_Imag...00M Owners.pdf

    For the time being, that is job done, I will be doing some minor cosmetic touching up when time permits and that’s about it.

    Great sounding speaker and the sound I have been searching for.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + Ortofon MC20 Supreme / Pro-Ject Phono box & Pre Box RS / KMTech Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / DIY Sealed Three Way Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / DAC Magic.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2012

    Location: Falun, Sweden

    Posts: 2,175
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Thanks very much Qwin! Excellent summary!

  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: Herts

    Posts: 34
    I'm Ian.

    Default

    I'm selling all my speakers to get a pair of ns1000 I am sold on the description of a detailed mid range and crisp HF. If that's the case, They would represent a departure and contrast with my Brit speakers. Never heard them but the other obvious step on is big Tannoys but again, from reading only they may be a bit refined and laid back. Would this be a reasonable summary of the speakers respective talents?

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,314
    I'm Ken.

    Default

    Hi Ian
    Big Tannoys 12/15" are not laid back and can bop with the best of them, the 15" can be a physical experiance.

    My comments were comparing my old original caps with the replacements and while the mid range is warmer and richer than it was I would not say it is as mellow as big Tannoy's.

    The recapped NS-1000M are fast, tight and punchy with an absolute clarity and lack of distortion from the upper mids upward that I have not had before and only experianced at hifi shows from speakers costing many thousands of pounds. Being an infinate baffle design they work well in small rooms, with a lack of boom and room effects till the volume gets silly. Although an old 70's design they sound like modern speakers, they are very revealing and will highlight any weaknesses elsewhere in your system. I am going to have to upgrade my speaker leads for a start, I am using Van Damme Blue, which is a good entry level cable, but I borowed some Atlas that seemed to expand the frequency range at both ends so I will be looking to make a change soon.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + Ortofon MC20 Supreme / Pro-Ject Phono box & Pre Box RS / KMTech Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / DIY Sealed Three Way Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / DAC Magic.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 26,777
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snorbans View Post
    I'm selling all my speakers to get a pair of ns1000 I am sold on the description of a detailed mid range and crisp HF. If that's the case, They would represent a departure and contrast with my Brit speakers. Never heard them but the other obvious step on is big Tannoys but again, from reading only they may be a bit refined and laid back. Would this be a reasonable summary of the speakers respective talents?
    Laid back? Not on your Nellie! The proper big Tannoys can be devastatingly dynamic and certainly have as "detailed mid range and crisp HF" as the Yamaha NS-1000, albeit with a different tonal signature. The NS-1000s are a very fine speaker, but I find the Tannoy sound a bit more coherent and integrated. Nothing images like Tannoys.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  6. #26
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,608
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    My 15"MG sound very good listening to SOft Machine at the moment.
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing401 PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  7. #27
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: Herts

    Posts: 34
    I'm Ian.

    Default

    Im in trouble with the Tannoy lovers aren't i. More listening required but for now this thread has sold me on the NS1000 - thanks!

  8. #28
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Dunfermline, Scotland, UK

    Posts: 12,175
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Laid back? Not on your Nellie! The proper big Tannoys can be devastatingly dynamic and certainly have as "detailed mid range and crisp HF" as the Yamaha NS-1000, albeit with a different tonal signature. The NS-1000s are a very fine speaker, but I find the Tannoy sound a bit more coherent and integrated. Nothing images like Tannoys.
    Statics image better.
    There are times when you canít do the sensible thing, when you canít act like a responsible adult at all; you just have to do whatever insane thing comes into your head. When bad people do it they end up murderers, when good people do it they end up heroes, and when the rest of us do it we end up looking like total idiots. But whenís that ever stopped us?

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 26,777
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Statics image better.
    Heard plenty, owned some. Not sure I'd agree Ali. Very different sound and presentation anyway (as you well know ).



    (how's the new job by the way?)
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Dunfermline, Scotland, UK

    Posts: 12,175
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    LOL, yes quite right, just pulling yer leg. :-)

    Job is good thanks, if a bit on the manic side, the usual loads to do and very little time to do it..
    There are times when you canít do the sensible thing, when you canít act like a responsible adult at all; you just have to do whatever insane thing comes into your head. When bad people do it they end up murderers, when good people do it they end up heroes, and when the rest of us do it we end up looking like total idiots. But whenís that ever stopped us?

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