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Thread: Yamaha NS1000M - Tweaks

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Ken.

    Default Yamaha NS1000M - Tweaks



    These are the new arrivals - the legendary Yamaha NS-1000M (Monitors).

    Set them up in my not ideal locations, but there's not much I can do about that, short of moving house.

    They seem to sound as folks have described for examples of this age, with slightly forward mid and treble units, which are ruthlessly honest in their rendition and with a soft'ish bass. They are thirty odd years old and I suspect there are some tired parts in there somewhere. I aim to get them sounding as good as new and deserving of their reputation, but I must finish the Celestion 66ís first.






    A quick and simple first task is to change the spring clips that are used to connect the speaker wire, for some decent binding posts.






    I came across a Japanese seller on Fleebay that was selling these ready to fit sets of binding posts, that are mounted on a Yamaha compatible fixing plate, seemed ideal. On arrival I was disappointed to find they were made of white metal. I had on hand a very similar looking free standing set from another supplier that have gold plated solid brass contacts, they were so similar that it was easy to swap them over on the mounting plate.






    That's the binding posts fitted, I don't believe in using expensive connectors but I do expect them to be brass under the inevitable Gold flash plating. These will make a much better contact than the original spring terminals.
    Something concerned me when I was fitting these, the cables from the connectors to the x-over board are single strand bell wire, I am not kidding! I will get round to sorting that along the way.






    Here is a closer look, for those that are not familiar with this speaker, it is a three way sporting a 12" paper Woofer in a sealed box of solid construction. The Midrange and Tweeter are Beryllium Copper domes and were state of the art at the time of manufacture. The large White Yamaha Logo is missing from the space to the right of the tweeter (both speakers), there is no sign of it having ever being applied. I think it was screen printed directly on to the cabinet as it doesn't look like a sticker or transfer on other examples I have looked at. No sign of it and the black wood grain finish looks perfect with no sign of over painting etc, it's a mystery. I think the logo was a bit large and did nothing for the looks so I am not that bothered at the moment. I will just enjoy them for now while I finish fettling the 66's.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + Ortofon MC20 Supreme / Pro-Ject Phono box & Pre Box RS / KMTech Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / DIY Sealed Three Way Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / DAC Magic.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 24,553
    I'm Geoff.

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    Soft sounding bass is not something I've associated with the NS-1000. They should sound very tight and punchy, but they do require an amp that drives them firmly. I'd go so far as to say that some of the tightest bass I've heard has been from these.

    They look like nice examples.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Ken.

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    They are not in bad nick, a few small marks thats all.

    The 2 parallel caps on the bass low pass are 94uf (2x47uf) and are the only electrolytics on the crossover and I think renewing these very old parts would put some kick back into the bass, which is otherwise quite deep and well controlled. I renewed the same components (by location) on my Celestion 66's and it tranformed the bass on those to another level. The rest of the caps used are metalised paper in oil and have a very long life, though they are not the best sounding devices by todays standards. I will get round to removing the small rear panel on which the x-over is mounted for an inspection, I think you can check the x-over in this way without having to removing the bass drivers.

    I have heard they are very picky about amps and my Sugden A21a has probably not got the current reserves to power the bass, which I understand has a fair impedance rise as frequency falls.

    Luxman 70's SS and Yamaha B2 etc also valves are supposed to work well.
    Last edited by Qwin; 29-01-2015 at 20:06.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + Ortofon MC20 Supreme / Pro-Ject Phono box & Pre Box RS / KMTech Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / DIY Sealed Three Way Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / DAC Magic.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2012

    Location: Falun, Sweden

    Posts: 2,138
    I'm Mike.

    Default Yamaha NS1000M - Tweaks

    Congratulations on a pair of excellent speakers!
    My pair won't be going anywhere soon!
    But i dont agree with you on the "soft bass" comment as these are tightest punchiest speakers ever played in my listeing room! (And there have been some, Audio Physic Tempo, Monitor Audio Platinum PL-300, Dali 40SE, Avalon Idea/NP2.0, Von Scheikert VR2 etc)
    They do benefit from an amp with a high damping factor though, at the moment mine are powered by a Karan KA S270. Not the flimsiest amp i assure you!
    Will be following this thread with great interest!

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Ken.

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    Mike - By reputation the bass should be stonking, and I have read much about careful amp matching, so I am taking that into consideration.

    I still think the 30 year old electrolytics in the bass filter will be holding things back, they are cheap to replace and keeping to electrolytics will not change the voicing, just put it back to where it was from new. As I mentioned this had a dramatic effect on my Celestion 66's and several people commented on how good the bass was on these, including Marco who had his own unmodified set as a reference.

    I will get round to changing these caps in the near future and report back on how they effect things, electrolytics of this age really do need replacing, if only to safeguard the drivers.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + Ortofon MC20 Supreme / Pro-Ject Phono box & Pre Box RS / KMTech Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / DIY Sealed Three Way Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / DAC Magic.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Sheffield - UK

    Posts: 5,496
    I'm Mark.

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    The badges were self adhesive printed metalized plastic film and pretty easy to peel off (I still have the ones I removed from mine).

    100% Analogue

  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 3,951
    I'm Paul.

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    Nice find Ken and cracking speakers.

    As you suspect, that softish bass may be partly due to aged 'lytics as the raised ESR has a similar effect to reducing bass sensitivity and reducing efficiency...considerably so. Replace those with like for like new ones and the bass should be transformed.

    I'd be using minimum 1mm cross section, preferably 1,5mm for the bass connection wires (15 to 18 AWG). 18 to 20 AWG is more than adequate for the mid/Hf.

    I know that Mark is to modest to mention it, but I have not seen a better or more professional restoration of Yamaha NS1000's than the ones Mark has done, so I'm sure that Mark may have some top tips for you. His attention to detail with things like the internal woofer brace (a la Roksan Darius....a beam and locking bolt/spike arrangement) is a good example of vibration control/transfer.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Sheffield - UK

    Posts: 5,496
    I'm Mark.

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    Thanks Paul, very kind of you to say so . Yes, the bass could well be the two electrolytic caps aging - easy enough to change and to measure. I can't remember exactly now but I think I used 1.5mm cable for the mid and tweeter and doubled it up for the bass (I used a pro grade OFC copper - nothing exotic).

    I was pleased with the brace I fitted to the cab to fit against the dimple that is in the rear of the bass driver. The idea was to mechanically ground and brace it to the rear corners of the cabinet (rather than the centre of the rear panel where there will be the greatest flex). Unfortunately it's not possible to compare the effects of such a change as it isn't removable and took a while to make and fit. It really does brace against the back of the driver though.

    Having seen Ken's work on his Celestions I'm sure he will do an equally super job of his new Yammies .

    100% Analogue

  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2012

    Location: Falun, Sweden

    Posts: 2,138
    I'm Mike.

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    Good thinking Qwin, keep us posted on the progress, will you?
    There are also some talk about the modifications to the x-over by the famed builder of speakers Troels Gravesen;
    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Yamaha-NS1000.htm

    Personally, i am less bothered with electrolytics that are coupled in parallell with the drivers, than the occasional one in series. Your trials may well prove me wrong though!

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Sheffield - UK

    Posts: 5,496
    I'm Mark.

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    Troels' article on the Yammies is interesting but ultimately a bit of a tease as, although he seems to give a lot of detail, he doesn't actually give enough to emulate what he has done (it is a commercial venture after all so not surprising). The biggest change he makes is to alter the bass alignment from a 2nd order slope to 3rd order (as he describes it); however, it isn't really third order in the true sense - more a version of. The bass on mine is actively driven by an amp with a digital front end and it is easy to alter the crossover. I experimented quite a bit with different alignments and did settle on 3rd order.

    100% Analogue

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