Additional Headshell Mass with a 103R in a Standard SL1210 Arm?

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

That’s disappointing, mate!

Two things: increase VTF to 2.6g (as that’s the sweet spot for the 103), and also check that azimuth is spot on, with a headshell ‘bubble’ spirit level. If azimuth is out, it will adversely affect tracking ability.

At 2.6g VTF, anti-skate should be set to approx 2.5.

See what (if anything) happens.

Marco.

P.S You’re not still using the little rubber washer, which comes attached to the bayonet fitting of the headshell, are you? If so, lose it - the sound will improve that way.

[Marco]

Oh, also, which geometry have you used to align the cartridge? With the Technics arm, you must use Stevenson. Better still, use the little plastic Technics overhang tool to set alignment, as that’s what gives the best results.

If you don’t have one, you need to get one (cheap as chips on ebay)

Marco.

[anubisgrau]

i personally believe it's a waste of time trying to fit any of the 103 varieties into the 1210 arm. i tend to believe it's possible until i've heard how does it sound into a dedicated 12" broadcast denon arm of a high mass (304 i think). it's utterly impossible to get such a performance from a 1210 arm, no mod can take you there.

i don't know which cartridge plays optimal in a 1210 arm but neither 103 or 103R are.

[Marco]

Hi Gordan,

I have some sympathy with that statement, as indeed is confirmed by my (extensive) personal experience of using SL-1210s with many different arms and cartridges, including the 103. However, although a Denon DL-103 can never be fully optimised on a Technics arm, it can be made to work acceptably well.

In that respect, I think Dave’s almost there, but I suspect that the problem he’s encountering is largely due to the distortion created by incorrect cartridge alignment. The symptoms he’s described seem to point in that direction.

I believe that this can be fixed by realigning the cartridge using Stevenson, as opposed to the Baerwald geometry, used with most protractors. Indeed, with a Technics arm, the easiest way to align the cartridge is to use the little tool, supplied with all new turntables, and which is also available to buy on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-S...item232d1db308

When using the Technics arm, I’ve always had great results aligning cartridges with those

Marco.

[anubisgrau]

hi marco,

i agree i was maybe harsh with my statement but i lived more than a year with 1210 and 103, tried everything known and possible, changed shells, added a mass, experimented with screws pressure, cartridge fixing, blu tac, oil damping etc etc. i've though i've achieved a satisfactory result and i kinda liked what i've heard, though it was far from perfect. but - given the price i was happy.

however the 103 results in the dedicated denon 12" arms are really astonishing for what you pay. in my opinion, this puts a completely new light on the performance of these cartridges and if anyone believes he heard the best 103 can do without hearing it in DA-304 or DA-308, i would honestly suggest to try to hear that combo too. i tried it in a FR64fx and while much better than in a 1210 arm, it's still not what it delivers in a heavy denon arm. it comes very close to what SPU delivers in FR64. people who are trying to achieve a good result on a lesser budget can save a lot of money and get a very competitive performance.

[Marco]

Yes, undoubtedly the 103 works best on the 12” Denon tonearms it was originally designed to partner, for broadcasting purposes.

However, superb results can also be obtained with a 12” Jelco (such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HI-END-JELCO...-/290788749714) or SME 3012, and also with some high-quality 9” arms (augmented with suitably high-mass headshells).

I agree that, used in that context, through a top-notch SUT (or head amp) and valve MM phono stage, the 103 is a veritable giant-killer!

Marco.

[Marco]

Hey, Dave, any more news about your 103?

Marco.

[Dave the bass]

"Back on the scene with a naff tracking machine"... as a Hip Hopper might say!

Hi Dave,

That’s disappointing, mate!

I share your disappointment Marco!!!

Yup's I tried increasing VTF a smidge to 2.6 but it made no difference in the real-world test with music, it was already tracing torture track 3 fine anyway unlike the 110, odd.

Will do, I'll check Azimuth with a bubble and also confirm using the mirror-method sighting down the handy painted line on the front of 103. Thats how I had to set up the Azimuth on the DIY Schroeder.

The little rubber O-ring is still in place, I'll remove it but I'd be interested to know why its recommended TBH.

I still haven't given up yet

Oh, also, which geometry have you used to align the cartridge? With the Technics arm, you must use Stevenson. Better still, use the little plastic Technics overhang tool to set alignment, as that’s what gives the best results.

If you don’t have one, you need to get one (cheap as chips on ebay)

Marco.

I used the proper Technics overhang gauge, its sets OH to 52mm if I understand correctly yeah? Any pointers as towhere I can confirm I'm using the Stevenson alignment?

Dave try lowering the back of the arm as a first step, then review the alignment, not sure what the standard techie is but it may need tweaking. I'd also try some sort of damping like a soft plastic washer between the cartridge and headshell. I will add though that my rebodied 103R also exhibits a sibilant tendency but the SA less so.....

Ta Neal, with the Copper spacer in place I can now get lower than horizontal at the back, I'll give it a try. I'll experiment with various cartridge/headshell interface materials too. I've got some thin Butyl rubber sheeting around the workshop amongst other 'stuff'', I'll see what I can find. The idea is to decouple slightly the cartridge + mass spacer from the headshell yeah?

[Marco]

Yup's I tried increasing VTF a smidge to 2.6 but it made no difference in the real-world test with music, it was already tracing torture track 3 fine anyway unlike the 110, odd.

No worries. However, 2.6g should sound better, overall, with all types of music played.

Will do, I'll check Azimuth with a bubble and also confirm using the mirror-method sighting down the handy painted line on the front of 103. Thats how I had to set up the Azimuth on the DIY Schroeder.

Excellent. Ensuring that azimuth is correctly adjusted is absolutely crucial with any cartridge, in order to get it to perform optimally. The nonsense one reads about spherical styli supposedly being virtually ‘immune’ to set-up issues is, quite frankly, nonsense!

The little rubber O-ring is still in place, I'll remove it but I'd be interested to know why its recommended TBH.

I believe the theory goes along the lines of, because the 103 (being of such low-compliance) chucks a lot of energy into the arm, and you want that energy to dissipate freely through a ‘lossy’-style of tonearm (such as all detachable headshell arms are, by nature) - that effect is better achieved when the headshell is directly coupled to the arm, rather than decoupled, when the rubber ‘O-ring’ is in place (and thus energy is stored, rather than dissipated) - summat like that, anyway!

Things should defo sound a little better without the ‘O-ring'.

I used the proper Technics overhang gauge, its sets OH to 52mm if I understand correctly yeah? Any pointers as towhere I can confirm I'm using the Stevenson alignment?

The Technics overhang gauge, I believe, conforms to Stevenson geometry, so if you’ve used it correctly (gotten the very tip of the stylus *absolutely* parallel with the little groove cut out of the ‘arm’ underneath, on the little plastic tool), all should be fine.

One other small thing too, experiment with how tightly you do up the cartridge screws on the headshell, as sometimes it sounds better with them ‘Linn tight’, and others, just lightly nipped up.

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Yes, undoubtedly the 103 works best on the 12” Denon tonearms it was originally designed to partner, for broadcasting purposes.

However, superb results can also be obtained with a 12” Jelco (such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HI-END-JELCO...-/290788749714) or SME 3012, and also with some high-quality 9” arms (augmented with suitably high-mass headshells).

I agree that, used in that context, through a top-notch SUT (or head amp) and valve MM phono stage, the 103 is a veritable giant-killer!

Marco.

Hi Marco,

hope all ok with you and things calmed down a bit after Christmas?

I was very impressed indeed with your Turntable after hearing it at NEBO and particularly impressed wth the Denon 103 through the head amp and my Croft.

I have been thinking of going down the MC route myself but have been put off by the price of many of the good MC cartridges out there. However the Denon 103 looks very reasonable for the price but I appreciate it needs to be sympathetically executed in a tonearm that will work well with the cartridge.

I am just wondering if the VPI JMW9T Tonearm I have would be suitable. it is a Unipivot design, and its effective mass is 9.5 -10 grams. The tonearm is also very well damped internally. Do you think it may be suitable to run a Denon 103 in this arm or is it a case of 'suck it and see' ?

cheers

Jim