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Thread: My Technics SL-1210Mk2 journey - advice needed . . .

  1. #21
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMusic View Post
    I did a lot in one session, but listened each time to check what I was getting.

    Once you have finished you may find, like me that you are not finished, are we ever ?


    What is delivered in sound quality in Yannis' cables is way, way more than the price.
    You can pay more for other cables and get less

    On the SPU, like you I was getting impatient.
    I heard Marco's and was impressed. Talking to Marco later he was thinking of upgrading so I bought it !
    The Ortofon SUT I took to match the SPU and was staggered at the improvement, the Whest also helped a lot.
    I had heard similar and had identified the SUT and Phono Pre as vital big steps up in my then system - they were.
    'Course I then heard the much more expensive VIDA and now have both the SUT and Whest to sell !

    The way I have upgraded hasn't been completely scientific.
    Some kit bought unheard, some heard in other systems or on recommendation
    Now a few quid spent later the system sounds just fantastic.
    Enjoyment levels off the scale I was used to.

    If you think about a Jelco I have one of them to sell as well
    (Not been good selling kit and I really need to get my finger out)
    Thanks Mike. Is it the ST80SE SUT you are looking to sell? Why do you no longer need that with your VIDA phono?

  2. #22
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive197 View Post
    Hi

    Being an audiophile for the last 44 years I have owned many TT's and seperate arms by SME, Linn and now Origin Live. When I purchased my SL1210M5G to replace a Linn LP12/Ittok MkIII in June last year I also bought the Origin Live Silver Mk3 and Origin Live armboard at the same time. The Encounter was bought from a fellow forum member about 2 months ago after reading a few reviews regarding the Dual Pivot system that OL use. Great arm but as on all OL arms the head shells are not interchangeable. That does not present me with a problem as I find it very easy to swop-out a cartridge.

    As for cartridges, I have owned models by Audio Technica, Shure, ADC, Philips, Denon, Linn and Ortofon. I have always prefered the later having gone through most of their range over the years. In the last ten years I've ran a Kontapunct B, cadenza Bronze, 2M Black and now the Cadenza Black which was purchased about a month ago.

    Clive
    Thanks Clive.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 4,162
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
    Thanks Mike. Is it the ST80SE SUT you are looking to sell? Why do you no longer need that with your VIDA phono?
    Yes.
    I should try it into the VIDA before I sell, just in case (should think first and type 2nd !)
    I don't think the VIDA will need it whereas other Phono Pres had the SQ improved
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMusic View Post
    Yes.
    I should try it into the VIDA before I sell, just in case (should think first and type 2nd !)
    I don't think the VIDA will need it whereas other Phono Pres had the SQ improved
    Ah, right, so its phono stage dependent?

  5. #25
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Gareth,

    A SUT amplifies the very low output from some of the highend carts to higher levels through the MM section of your phonostage. I wouldn't be without my SUT which is specially designed to work with the highend ortofon carts. You dont need a SUT immediately and the one I purchase cost £1K you can make your own if you have enough knowledge.

    Andy
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  6. #26
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Gareth,

    A SUT amplifies the very low output from some of the highend carts to higher levels through the MM section of your phonostage. I wouldn't be without my SUT which is specially designed to work with the highend ortofon carts. You dont need a SUT immediately and the one I purchase cost £1K you can make your own if you have enough knowledge.

    Andy
    OK, thanks Andy - out of interest, why is using the SUT and MM section of the phonostage preferable to using the MC section of the phonostage?

  7. #27
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Try it and see what happens! It's not healthy for your speakers
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  8. #28
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Try it and see what happens! It's not healthy for your speakers
    Ha! OK, don't quote follow what you are on about there Andy?!

    To clarify; what I meant was SUT + MM stage vs just MC stage - why is the former preferable to the latter?

  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

    Posts: 1,519
    I'm Andrei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
    Ha! OK, don't quote follow what you are on about there Andy?!

    To clarify; what I meant was SUT + MM stage vs just MC stage - why is the former preferable to the latter?
    A MC phono stage can be thought of as two separate functions. One is to apply the RIAA correction to the signal from your LPs. The second is to amplify the signal. Actually the amplification is done first - the output from the MC cartridge being very much smaller than the output from an MM cartridge. So if you have an MC cartridge you have these options:

    Put your RCA leads into the only inputs of your MC phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into the MC inputs on your MC / MM phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into your SUT which will run into the MM inputs on your MC / MM phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into your SUT which will run into the only inputs on your MM phono stage

    If you were to run an MM signal into the MC inputs of your phono stage you would get an overload, you may smell smoke, you will start swearing, and a vision will appear before your eyes: you will see hundreds of £10 notes will little wings on them and they will be flying out your window.

    (Just to complicate matters if you choose to go the separates way you have the option of using a Head-Amp instead of a SUT.)

    IMHO a MM cartridge (or a High Output MC) is the way to go unless you are going to get a good quality phono stage. Using an SUT is a further step again and only for those who are really fine tuning their systems. One final point; you cannot just go and purchase an SUT and expect good results - the whole thing is a bit of a Dark Art to me but there is a good essay on the subject of matching cartridges with SUTs on the vinyl-engine forum.
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  10. #30
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: United Kingdom

    Posts: 52
    I'm Gareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
    A MC phono stage can be thought of as two separate functions. One is to apply the RIAA correction to the signal from your LPs. The second is to amplify the signal. Actually the amplification is done first - the output from the MC cartridge being very much smaller than the output from an MM cartridge. So if you have an MC cartridge you have these options:

    Put your RCA leads into the only inputs of your MC phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into the MC inputs on your MC / MM phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into your SUT which will run into the MM inputs on your MC / MM phono stage
    Put your RCA leads into your SUT which will run into the only inputs on your MM phono stage

    If you were to run an MM signal into the MC inputs of your phono stage you would get an overload, you may smell smoke, you will start swearing, and a vision will appear before your eyes: you will see hundreds of £10 notes will little wings on them and they will be flying out your window.

    (Just to complicate matters if you choose to go the separates way you have the option of using a Head-Amp instead of a SUT.)

    IMHO a MM cartridge (or a High Output MC) is the way to go unless you are going to get a good quality phono stage. Using an SUT is a further step again and only for those who are really fine tuning their systems. One final point; you cannot just go and purchase an SUT and expect good results - the whole thing is a bit of a Dark Art to me but there is a good essay on the subject of matching cartridges with SUTs on the vinyl-engine forum.
    Thanks for the detailed reply Andrei.

    Yes, I did understand that the SUT should go into the MM input, and not the MC input for the obvious reasons you mentioned (smoke and fire etc ).

    My query was relating specific to 'why' you would use a SUT at all (i.e. MC to SUT to MM phono input), rather than just run the MC cart straight into the MC input on your phonostage? i.e. Specifically what does it add to the sound quality?

    Just to clarify (I should probably put my system in my sig), I do already have a very decent phono stage, which is a separate board installed in my Levinson No.326s preamp, so an MC cart is more than likely the way I will go.

    I think I'm pretty much decided (thanks to the feedback from you guys on here) that I will go with an Ortofon cart, I've just got to decide which.

    Can someone give me a rough view as to the sound reproduction differences/characteristics are between, say, the Cadenze line and the SPU line?

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