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Thread: Back to front cables

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 17
    I'm Nick.

    Default Back to front cables

    Like most people, I've always had a healthy cynicism for cables, particularly of the 'high end' variety. Six months ago I 'downgraded' from chord chameleon ICs and chord epic twin speaker cables to some ridiculously cheap silver/PTFE jobs from a bloke who makes them on ebay. These were a third the price of the chord cables, but it was shocking how much better they sounded with the vinyl front end and I promptly flogged the chords off.

    I didn't really listen to the CD that much until recently but didn't think it sounded good at all however. It was murky sounding and distorted with poor high and low frequency extension. I hadn't considered that it might be the cables initially, and had assumed the TT was just showing it up and that I might have to upgrade the Apollo R. I don't know why, but I thought I'd try the IC the otherway round, having read a bit of unconvincing stuff somewhere about cable directionality. To my amazement and delight I was astounded how everything was suddenly right again. There was clarity, sophistication, emotion, separation, musicality, and extension in spades. I then realised the arrows marked on had been pointing in the wrong direction all along - it had been back to front.

    It's possible this effect may be more important with some cables rather than others. Maybe solid silver is more prone to it. Even if your cynical about this, it's worth checking cable direction and experimenting if things don't sound as they should. This was not a subtle effect in my own system. I am certain I have not imagined it and didn't believe in the phenomenon until experiencing it. Why it might happen, I don't know - there's stuff postulated about the asymmetrical crystal structure of pulled / rolled metal, but then again the signal is AC in nature, so it doesn't make that much sense.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Wythall, Worcestershire, UK

    Posts: 798
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    I will save that one for a rainy day.

    I wonder how much it depends on the length of the cable. The more wire there is to be different sounding, etc. I keep mine to less than 1m, except for one the rest are 0.5m long or less.

    What are your cables lengths? Some folks run several metres.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 17
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    1m for most of the ICs. 0.5m between SUT and phono stage. So not long by any means.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,625
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    I've never heard any difference having cables either way round. Although not exactly AC as such, analogue audio signals reciprocate in a similar manner, so cable polarity means nothing as far as I'm aware.

    Perhaps somebody can provide a justification for cable polarity?
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,992
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Do you know the construction of these cables? If they are so-called semi-balanced type, comprising a screened two-core cable where the screen is connected to the outer part of the phono plugs at one end of the cable only, then being asymmetric they could well be directional.

    If they are of a conventional coaxial construction, then being symmetric, I fail to see how they could be directional. However if you can clearly and repeatably hear a difference then I wouldn't argue - just enjoy the improved result!
    Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 17
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    Yes -it does have a screening wire attached at one end. I hadn't realised, so maybe that's all there is to it.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Nick,

    Did you witness this phenomenon occurring by any chance on a Tuesday?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,992
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Nick,

    Did you witness this phenomenon occurring by any chance on a Tuesday?

    Marco.
    Why - what's so special about Tuesdays? (Apart from the fact that the Second Coming is scheduled for a Tuesday.)
    Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Well, I usually have a curry on a Tuesday…. Other than that, I was just having a giggle!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #10
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nickjj View Post
    Like most people, I've always had a healthy cynicism for cables, particularly of the 'high end' variety. Six months ago I 'downgraded' from chord chameleon ICs and chord epic twin speaker cables to some ridiculously cheap silver/PTFE jobs from a bloke who makes them on ebay. These were a third the price of the chord cables, but it was shocking how much better they sounded with the vinyl front end and I promptly flogged the chords off.

    I didn't really listen to the CD that much until recently but didn't think it sounded good at all however. It was murky sounding and distorted with poor high and low frequency extension. I hadn't considered that it might be the cables initially, and had assumed the TT was just showing it up and that I might have to upgrade the Apollo R. I don't know why, but I thought I'd try the IC the otherway round, having read a bit of unconvincing stuff somewhere about cable directionality. To my amazement and delight I was astounded how everything was suddenly right again. There was clarity, sophistication, emotion, separation, musicality, and extension in spades. I then realised the arrows marked on had been pointing in the wrong direction all along - it had been back to front.

    It's possible this effect may be more important with some cables rather than others. Maybe solid silver is more prone to it. Even if your cynical about this, it's worth checking cable direction and experimenting if things don't sound as they should. This was not a subtle effect in my own system. I am certain I have not imagined it and didn't believe in the phenomenon until experiencing it. Why it might happen, I don't know - there's stuff postulated about the asymmetrical crystal structure of pulled / rolled metal, but then again the signal is AC in nature, so it doesn't make that much sense.
    Most cables are directional to varying degrees and there are a number of possible explanations as to why that might be the case.

    That these were better is not necessarily a reflection on price i.e the better cables being cheaper. In reality in many cases home built or direct sales cables are the same basic price as the big brand cables its just that a distributor (if applicable) and or dealer margin is missing from the direct sales/home built items price. Though again that's not always a gauge either as some of those items still contain the what should be missing margins that a direct sales model should infer on the purchaser but sometimes doesn't. So in reality you didn't downgrade, just because these items were cheaper.


    Regards Neil

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