Isoplatmat Vs Acromat 1200

[.mus]

Hi Mark,
I have an Achromat on one 1210 and the Oyaide BR-12 - a less costly fusion of the BR-ONE and MJ-12 - on the other, and I prefer the Oyaide - the stereo image is a little more coherent. Buy you're correct that it's designed to be used with a weight/clamp, though this does the job perfectly for a fine price.

If the BR-ONE is designed to fit beneath the MJ-12 then it should fit within the lip of the Technics platter, and the material is quite tacky, so should do what you've suggested.

[markx]

Hi Mark,
I have an Achromat on one 1210 and the Oyaide BR-12 - a less costly fusion of the BR-ONE and MJ-12 - on the other, and I prefer the Oyaide - the stereo image is a little more coherent. Buy you're correct that it's designed to be used with a weight/clamp, though this does the job perfectly for a fine price.

If the BR-ONE is designed to fit beneath the MJ-12 then it should fit within the lip of the Technics platter, and the material is quite tacky, so should do what you've suggested.

Does the BR-12 sound better than the Achromat to your ears when used without a clamp?

[Spectral Morn]

I just prefer value for money solutions. I am very wary of foo. Perhaps I was too quick to dismiss the Oyaide mat based on its pretty appearance and high price. I would prefer not to use a record clamp in my set up & the Oyaide mat is designed to be used with one. With the the weight/clamp it comes in at £450. This is creeping towards the price of a replacement platter. I am looking for a cost effective alternative to the £75 Achromat. Otherwise I may as well go for the Funk Firm platter 1 @ £595 or perhaps try and find a used one.

I was thinikng a thin (1mm/2mm) rubber mat (like the Oyaide BR-One but non branded) with an aluminium Isoplatmat (£90) on top and a thin, soft mat on top of that - Sounnd Damped Steel offer one called the Isocover which is 1mm thick, @ £12.50.

Would this be a good alternative to the Achromat?

Does anyone sell a thin (1mm/2mm) generic rubber mat that would fit inside the lip of the Technics platter that could be used in this context?

Hi Mark

I would not create a tower of mats, platter and one mat is fine but too many will introduce potential vibration issues as too many surfaces are being laid on top of each other, thus introducing numerous gaps between those surfaces. No matter how that's done it isn't the same as a one piece platter, I would go so far as to say that a MJ12 with BR One is a compromise too as the items are not bonded to each other or the original Technics platter. though they do work well but I oft wonder how it would perform if all the items were bonded in such away to behave like one piece. In saying that even if it was possible I would not do it as it would destroy the products meaning they could not be separated to try other options or to resale.


Regards Neil

[walpurgis]

I have been known to buy a self adhesive cork floor tile, cut it to fit and stick it to a platter. Works rather well, as being bonded to the platter it gives excellent damping. This gives very good results on Rega type glass platters.

[.mus]

Does the BR-12 sound better than the Achromat to your ears when used without a clamp?

I haven't tried it without, so can't really comment (and the two decks now differ in too many other parts to make easy comparisons) but since the mat is slightly dished, it wouldn't be in proper contact with the record's underside if the record wasn't properly clamped/weighted, so possibly not the best configuration.

[krugdoktor]

Hi Mark

I used an Isoplatmat with a Herbie's way excellent II mat on top of the original platter. This brought the platter surface into a useful height since the Isoplat + Herbie's have a combined thickness of ~6mm. The Isoplatmat was extremely effective in damping the awful ringing original platter (astonishing since the Isoplatmat is quite lightweight!) and the Herbie's provided the interface between record and platter. I used small strips of thin double-sided tape (photo tape) to secure the Isoplatmat and also to secure the Herbie's (no need for Vaseline here).

The whole construction became redundant when I bought the Mike New copper-ally platter with a Boston Audio Design Mat 2, but I still think the original platter with Isoplatmat + Herbie's was very good and waaay better than the original thick rubber mat, the Herbie's without Isoplatmat, a Cartridgeman Musi Mat and an Audio Technica Ceramic mat!

IMHO damping the platter is absolutely essential and my experience showed that no single mat can achieve this AND provide a perfect interface between platter and record.

So my advice would be: Damp the platter (rubber is not effective enough!) and then look for a mat that suits your system (and your ears!)

a few links:
http://www.boston-audio.com/mat1.html
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm
http://www.mikenewaudio.com/platter.php

Have fun with the decision

Michael

[Marco]

So my advice would be: Damp the platter (rubber is not effective enough!) and then look for a mat that suits your system (and your ears!)

…or use a platter in the first place that doesn’t need damping (such as the Mike New ETP)

That aside, Michael, with a stock Technics platter in the equation, I do agree with your findings

Marco.

[markx]

Hi Mark

I used an Isoplatmat with a Herbie's way excellent II mat on top of the original platter. This brought the platter surface into a useful height since the Isoplat + Herbie's have a combined thickness of ~6mm. The Isoplatmat was extremely effective in damping the awful ringing original platter (astonishing since the Isoplatmat is quite lightweight!) and the Herbie's provided the interface between record and platter. I used small strips of thin double-sided tape (photo tape) to secure the Isoplatmat and also to secure the Herbie's (no need for Vaseline here).

The whole construction became redundant when I bought the Mike New copper-ally platter with a Boston Audio Design Mat 2, but I still think the original platter with Isoplatmat + Herbie's was very good and waaay better than the original thick rubber mat, the Herbie's without Isoplatmat, a Cartridgeman Musi Mat and an Audio Technica Ceramic mat!

IMHO damping the platter is absolutely essential and my experience showed that no single mat can achieve this AND provide a perfect interface between platter and record.

So my advice would be: Damp the platter (rubber is not effective enough!) and then look for a mat that suits your system (and your ears!)

a few links:
http://www.boston-audio.com/mat1.html
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm
http://www.mikenewaudio.com/platter.php

Have fun with the decision

Michael

Thanks Michael. I think the Isoplatmat + a soft mat on top like the OL mat or SDS Isocover may be an option. From what I can gather the Isoplatmat is likely to have more effect defeating vibrational inteference from the motor/transformer due to its material than coventional mats such as the Achromat, Herbies etc.

I have lived with the Technics for many years and I know its sound signature well. It does have a ringy, shouty quality to it. I wonder how much of this is down to the stock platter and whether or not any of the mats will help negate this effect? I have a sneaking feeling that the replacement platter would be a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps even more impactful than externalising the power supply or replacing the bearing etc. Conventional wisdom on here would seem to suggest the platter upgrade as the final step to take. I'm just wondering whether the benefits of the replacement platter could be brought in at a much earlier stage of the mod process?

An A-B test of two stock 1210's with re-wired arms, one with the replacement platter and one without would be really interesting I think.

In your experience how did you rate the performance increase of replacing the stock platter?

[krugdoktor]

Thanks Michael. I think the Isoplatmat + a soft mat on top like the OL mat or SDS Isocover may be an option. From what I can gather the Isoplatmat is likely to have more effect defeating vibrational inteference from the motor/transformer due to its material than coventional mats such as the Achromat, Herbies etc.

I have lived with the Technics for many years and I know its sound signature well. It does have a ringy, shouty quality to it. I wonder how much of this is down to the stock platter and whether or not any of the mats will help negate this effect? I have a sneaking feeling that the replacement platter would be a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps even more impactful than externalising the power supply or replacing the bearing etc. Conventional wisdom on here would seem to suggest the platter upgrade as the final step to take. I'm just wondering whether the benefits of the replacement platter could be brought in at a much earlier stage of the mod process?

An A-B test of two stock 1210's with re-wired arms, one with the replacement platter and one without would be really interesting I think.

In your experience how did you rate the performance increase of replacing the stock platter?

I did go the usual way: Timestep PSU, then Jelco tonearm, then Mike New bearing, then SME V, then Paul Hynes PSU, then (last step) Mike New Copper-Ally-Platter. It's hard to predict the outcome from going backwards (starting with the platter).

The biggest step for me was the Mike New bearing, the second place goes to the tonearm-exchange and I have to say the Jelco was not very far away from the SME V, but the latter has always been my "dream-arm"!

The platter exchange was the icing on the cake (well, quite a bit more!) and for me added just the right amount of pitch stability and bass heft (but I have the Copper-Ally-Platter which I think can not be supported by the rather flimsy stock bearing).

At last don't underestimate the stock platter with the Isoplatmat! these two together are acoustically inert. I was absolutely amazed at the amount of damping the Isoplatmat could achieve. I remember taking it out of its packing I was deeply disappointed by the lightweight nature of the Isoplatmat (I expected something more substantial because I thought damping could only be achieved with an amount of mass!), but when I placed it on the platter I was excited by the success it brought to the sound. Especially excited because the Herbie's alone without Isoplat was not able to damp the ringing and after trying it on it's own I reverted to the stock (thick) Technics rubber mat.

I hope this all does not add more confusion

Michael

[markx]

Should I choose not to go with the replacement platter, which of these two options would be best in your opinion?

1) Achromat 1200 bonded to the platter with vaseline.

2) Isoplatmat bonded with thin strips of double sided tape with an Isocover placed on top.

The benefit of the Achromat would be a more direct bonding to the platter. The benefit of the Isoplatmat would be I suspect greater vibrational damping ability. The Isoplatmat is slightly more expensive. Also, it would be metal on metal which apparently is not a good thing and would require an additional layer (the Isocover) which according to Neil is also not a good thing.

Any further thoughts?