Replacing the Technics tonearm - Origin Live Silver MK3A or Audio Note Arm 1?

[6L6]

I will shortly be adding Isonoe footers and replacing the stock rubber mat with an Achromat 1200.


I want to improve on the Technics dark, rather shut in character. I want a wider sound-stage, greater detail and a more musical, airy, high fidelity performance.

Isonoes, Acromat, and external PSU. Those three things will get rid of the darkness and open things up in a rather breathtaking manner.

Of the three, the PSU is most important, as it gets the vibrating, humming chunk of iron and copper out of the chassis, shaking everything, and away from your cartridge. The increase in clarity is, in a word, astonishing.

The Isonoes and Acromat simply remove most of the darkness.

Once those three items are done the table sounds much different than stock. (Significantly better) Only then look into another arm.

[markx]

Thank you to all for taking the time to respond – some interesting food for thought.

I am starting to lean towards the OL silver. It seems to be very well regarded and is a better cosmetic match to the 1210 imo. Also, I am not far from their premises and I can have them install it utilising one of their non-metal armboards.

I'm starting consider a high output MC instead of a MM. I think there is more chance of an MC widening the soundstage and offering the improved detail and finesse I am looking for. I was told in the past that the only MC's worth considering are low output ones. However, after some online research last night (prompted by the Benz Micro HO MC recommendation) and many speak highly of a high output MC into a MM stage. I have read online that the Dynavector 10X5 is a good match for the OL arm. It seems to be universally well regarded for its price-performance. What are your thoughts?

Dalek Supreme, thanks for the Benz Micro Gold high output MC tip. However, I did a quick google search last night and it would appear to be a low output MC and the Micro Silver is the high output version or have I got something wrong here?

For those recommending the bearing upgrade as an early stage upgrade essential. I am not convinced. However, I could be wrong. Similarly, I am not convinced the PS upgrade is more important than the arm upgrade. Something to consider further down the line perhaps. I have a limited budget and to be honest I am not expecting or wanting 'word class' analogue playback just something that is going to allow me to enjoy listening to my records more than I do at the moment. I have got to allocate funds where I believe the grater performance increase will be achieved. I think it is interesting that the Funk Firm do not talk about the need for an external power supply with their 'expensive' Technics mods, concentrating instead on the tonearm and the platter. Also, I have read a number of reports online which have stated the arm upgrade produced a much greater improvement than the external power supply. This review is one example:

http://hifipig.com/origin-live-modif...210-turntable/

To be fair there are others that report greater improvements are achieved by externalising the power supply but they would seem to be in the minority.

Further thoughts, feedback and advice would be greatly appreciated. I would particularly welcome feedback from anyone who has experience of the Dynavector DV10X5 with OL arms or of the DV10X5 cart in general.

Thanks

Mark

[Audio Al]

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...r-Mk-2-Tonearm

[CageyH]

IMHO, the biggest upgrade is the arm.
Don't discount the Audiomods arm either. There is a Technics model that just drops in.

That OL arm that Allen linked to is quite a good deal though!

[Spectral Morn]

Thank you to all for taking the time to respond – some interesting food for thought.

I am starting to lean towards the OL silver. It seems to be very well regarded and is a better cosmetic match to the 1210 imo. Also, I am not far from their premises and I can have them install it utilising one of their non-metal armboards.

I'm starting consider a high output MC instead of a MM. I think there is more chance of an MC widening the soundstage and offering the improved detail and finesse I am looking for. I was told in the past that the only MC's worth considering are low output ones. However, after some online research last night (prompted by the Benz Micro HO MC recommendation) and many speak highly of a high output MC into a MM stage. I have read online that the Dynavector 10X5 is a good match for the OL arm. It seems to be universally well regarded for its price-performance. What are your thoughts?

Dalek Supreme, thanks for the Benz Micro Gold high output MC tip. However, I did a quick google search last night and it would appear to be a low output MC and the Micro Silver is the high output version or have I got something wrong here?

For those recommending the bearing upgrade as an early stage upgrade essential. I am not convinced. However, I could be wrong. Similarly, I am not convinced the PS upgrade is more important than the arm upgrade. Something to consider further down the line perhaps. I have a limited budget and to be honest I am not expecting or wanting 'word class' analogue playback just something that is going to allow me to enjoy listening to my records more than I do at the moment. I have got to allocate funds where I believe the grater performance increase will be achieved. I think it is interesting that the Funk Firm do not talk about the need for an external power supply with their 'expensive' Technics mods, concentrating instead on the tonearm and the platter. Also, I have read a number of reports online which have stated the arm upgrade produced a much greater improvement than the external power supply. This review is one example:

http://hifipig.com/origin-live-modif...210-turntable/

To be fair there are others that report greater improvements are achieved by externalising the power supply but they would seem to be in the minority.

Further thoughts, feedback and advice would be greatly appreciated. I would particularly welcome feedback from anyone who has experience of the Dynavector DV10X5 with OL arms or of the DV10X5 cart in general.

Thanks

Mark

Mark

You are right - doh. I have both here at the minute and its a Silver on the arm at the minute the Gold is in its box. Sorry that's what comes of posting when ones head is up ones butt. Not been feeling great last few days, feel better today though.


Regards Neil

[Lynster]

For those recommending the bearing upgrade as an early stage upgrade essential. I am not convinced. However, I could be wrong.

I for one didn't say it was an essential first step, merely that I had a mindset to replace the arm, a limited budget and with what could have been a brain fade, made an unconventional choice (in terms of order purchased). I'm simply relating that that a different order worked out amazingly well for me. After all, the original arm already has many fine attributes and the rewire and damper improve it hugely to a point that it is a very good arm indeed. Sure there are better arms but the bearing plus a very good arm for the price of a top arm and a standard bearing, was simply an option I was presenting.

[6L6]

Similarly, I am not convinced the PS upgrade is more important than the arm upgrade. Something to consider further down the line perhaps. I have a limited budget and to be honest I am not expecting or wanting 'word class' analogue playback just something that is going to allow me to enjoy listening to my records more than I do at the moment. I have got to allocate funds where I believe the grater performance increase will be achieved.

Bold mine.

Considering that you can DIY the PSU upgrade for about £40 it is the biggest bang-for the-buck mod out there.

I'm not discounting the benefits of swapping out the arm - heck, I just mounted a $2500 arm on mine... But I have been down this path, and trust me, the PSU is the 2nd biggest mod you can do. (In order, Arm, PSU, with Isonoes/Acromat are tied for third)

And anyway, why on earth would you want to spend big money on a new arm and cartridge if your table is (quite literally) vibrating?

[ChrisKemp]

Same here. I have asked for advise while upgrading my M5G and read alot on other forums, too. First upgrade should be a new PSU (the one from MCRU is great and with a fine price). It made a significant improvement. Then the Isonoe feet and Achromat. Rather then buy a new expensive arm, I bought a rewired arm from KAB and Fluid Damper. Then came the Mike New bearing and everything fell in place. I even changed out the Achromat for the much better Oyaide MJ-12 platter.

Now when everything is pretty top notch, I'm considering a new arm.

[DSJR]

The OL arms I've seen have been badly finished bodges of the RB series. maybe the ones I saw were sub-standard, but adding faults in terms of catastrophic arm resonances to add 'excitement' to the sound isn't the way to go in my personal opinion. yes, I know that all tonearms using what we knew as the 'SME' headshell format can suffer breakup modes at lower midrange frequencies, but far eastern users have sort-of got over it with careful choice of headshell and cartridge and enough people here have great experiences of this arm with Shuggie collar on an ebony board with the techie.

Apologies for possibly rocking the boat, but a goodly few on here have followed the techie upgrade path over several years and have readily shared what seems to work and what doesn't. 'High Fidelity' on vinyl isn't always about a bright and 'airy' sound either, as many of the master-copies I repeatedly heard were more multi-mono than a homogenous spacious whole. It's different in the digital age, as recordings made like this in the 70's don't always sound too good.

I do wish you luck on your journey. Isonoes are expensive and not every user has liked them. Gromit, who's a musician, found they did things to the bass he didn't find 'natural,' but I can't remember the old thread here - I think it was about the VA feet.

Good luck though, but I hope you don't start pouring money without very careful research first

[rubber duck]

Well, someone had to say this and I agree with David. Simply throwing money at a problem is no guarantee of a solution. Personally I go against the grain here in terms of the arm but am not the only one who thinks the arm is pretty decent. Certainly good enough for the Funk arm tube mod. But even without this it is capable of fine results and I would be loathe to give up the flexibility of the adjustable VTA. I would consider an arm rewire as a starting point, especially if you can solder. My 1210 has a single unshielded, unbroken run of wire from cart to phono stage. Even with a full-bodied Shure M97xE (my current fave cart) into a valve phono stage (Croft 25 Basic which is quite special), the sound is rich yet open, clean and detailed - not just my opinion mind you. There may be a certain satisfaction from spending money and buying a new arm, etc and this may well work, but like David, all I'm saying is that this isn't necessary nor a guarantee.