How Wide?

[Figlet108]

Some great points coming out and I'm itching to respond
However I'm on a train to Birmingham for all day meetings so I'll have to wait till this evening.

One elephant-shaped grenade I will throw into the discussion is the room correction that I believe is essential for a good A/V setup.
My Onkyo SC5508 uses Audyssey MultEQ XT32 for set up and room correction. I used to be a sceptic in this area coming from the purist position of stereo hifi, where "thou shalt never digitally correct the signal!". I have to say that for movies in an A/V setup I am now 'a believer' - praise be!

The difference good room correction and setup makes is *huge* for directional sound and effects. Of course it doesn't help the music soundtrack, but as Martin quite rightly says, that's just a part of the movie experience and the directional sound and effects are what make it so much more immersive in my opinion.
The point is that good setup and digital room correction actually makes the *exact* speaker placement less of an issue and there's more flexibility for breaking the rules (don't be afraid of Lucas and his THX police SASing through your living room window to arrest you )

Anyway, my train's here - more later.

[Spectral Morn]

Over the years when I was out of two channel audio retailing I was involved in AV and general brown goods retail and I got a fair bit of experience re the different solutions available and one thing that was pretty key was that all the speakers needed to be the same/identical and if one was using a better centre then it came from the same brand, range and was thus voiced the same as the other speakers. An early attempt by myself to break this failed miserably in that I could hear the transition of voicing which broke the suspense of disbelief, so as the sound panned there was a Venetian blind effect. Only by replacing the centre with an identically voiced speaker solved this.

As has been hinted at there is no one cover all approach to this as different movies either THX or not will take a different approach so more so than with two channel more compromise is required to hit the sweet spot more often than not imho. One of the most impressive films I have heard in recent years was a Dolby Pro Logic movie Azumi, with excellent sound steering and a real replacing of the room acoustic for the movie reality.

Sound pressure level metre is required C weighted and 75 db is the level to hit, though most modern amps come with mic and automatic setup. I always double check manually.


Regards Neil

[icehockeyboy]

Hmm. As far as I can see if you use a centre speaker, you might as well listen to a mono system. The practice undermines the purpose of stereo.

Stereo?

Who is talking about stereo?

We are talking multi channel AV here.

Not stereo, that's my other set up.

[nat8808]

Stereo?

Who is talking about stereo?

We are talking multi channel AV here.

Not stereo, that's my other set up.

People are talking stereo purely in terms of the soundstage about the screen.

Perhaps you're saying that a 4 speaker approach will make the dialogue float potentially in the middle of speakers (depending on the placement) whilst the centre channel gives it bias towards the front of the surround sound-image? I guess it depends on how your A/V processor can handle the lack of centre - if it can compensate properly, it shouldn't make any difference.

[nat8808]

One elephant-shaped grenade I will throw into the discussion is the room correction that I believe is essential for a good A/V setup.

Not really elephant shaped - that would imply we're all choosing to ignore the obvious.. but I would guess that 90% dabling in A/V don't use room correction becuase they don't have it.

[Figlet108]

Neil, I find myself in violent agreement with you (is there a smilie for that?)

Anyway this thread needs some photos, so here's my setup - it's far from ideal given the constraints of room and marriage...

Here are the front three speakers + 2 subs:

I would have preferred to have the speakers a few feet further apart, but that'll have to wait for the house upgrade...

And the back 3 + projector:

At one point I tried 2 rear speakers but it was pointless. Franky the single rear is still a bit pointless given the size of the room and having the sofa right at the back wall, but hey it makes me happy knowing it's there

So interestingly, watching Eurovision (obviously! what else would I be doing), on the HD channel they are broadcasting in 5.1, but the centre channel is completely silent. The music is almost exclusively coming from front L/R, with only applause and some 'ambience' coming from the surrounds.
It actually sounds very good in my opinion.

[Figlet108]

Not really elephant shaped - that would imply we're all choosing to ignore the obvious.. but I would guess that 90% dabling in A/V don't use room correction becuase they don't have it.

Fair enough, no elephants and no grenades, however I find it very hard to believe 90% of those with A/V amps don't have auto setup in this day and age. I would have thought it was the opposite with 90% of current A/V amps having auto setup.

What A/V amp do you have and does it not have auto setup?

I agree with Neil that levels often have to be tweaked to taste after the auto setup, but it's the parametric eq, bass management and whatever else those fancy algorithms do that add the real value.

[Macca]

I've got three a/v amps and none of them have room correction or auto set up.
One of them has transformer hum though.

Pretty serious home cinema set up you have there Jason. Makes me want to sort mine out.

[Figlet108]

My previous Yamaha A/V amp from 5 years ago also had auto setup, but I concede - looks like I've underestimated the proliferation of A/V auto setup on AOS.
I guess getting back to the OP, the question is does Craig have auto setup, as I think it would reduce the impact of 'how wide' (in my opinion).

Martin, going down the route of separate processor/power amps and gradually collecting all matching speakers for the full 6.2 setup made a massive difference to my previous setup. It's the speakers that really pushed the cost up though for me, as having Audiovector front L/R meant collecting the rest was always going to be a bit painful. On the other hand decent power amps crop up on ebay all the time at cracking prices.

[Spectral Morn]

Neil, I find myself in violent agreement with you (is there a smilie for that?)

Anyway this thread needs some photos, so here's my setup - it's far from ideal given the constraints of room and marriage...

Here are the front three speakers + 2 subs:

I would have preferred to have the speakers a few feet further apart, but that'll have to wait for the house upgrade...

And the back 3 + projector:

At one point I tried 2 rear speakers but it was pointless. Franky the single rear is still a bit pointless given the size of the room and having the sofa right at the back wall, but hey it makes me happy knowing it's there

So interestingly, watching Eurovision (obviously! what else would I be doing), on the HD channel they are broadcasting in 5.1, but the centre channel is completely silent. The music is almost exclusively coming from front L/R, with only applause and some 'ambience' coming from the surrounds.
It actually sounds very good in my opinion.

Nice set up those look like Dali's, a very underrated brand in the UK. I haven't been around current AV amps but last time I was most mid priced upwards amps did have mic set up and knowing the pulse of AV is features I would be surprised if most sub £500 amps these days don't come with mic set up.

I think that's a first, someone violently agreeing with me.


Regards Neil